(00:00-00:27) Daria Rudnik
I'm pretty excited about this conversation. And today I'm with Roshan Chender, and he helps founders and executives cut the mental loops and slow decisions, drain time, and working authority. His work comes from years leading companies where performance looks strong, but decision patterns told another story. And today he teaches leaders how to see those patterns early and cut them before they cost more.

(00:27-00:50) Daria Rudnik
So I'm very excited about having this conversation with you, Roshan. And please just tell us about yourself and what you do. And then I'll ask you a few questions about how you do that.

(00:50-01:11) Roshan Chander
Perfect. So first of all, I just wanted to say thank you for inviting me here on this live, Daria. We've had a couple of one-on-one conversations and we always have this good energy between each other. So I'm hoping that we can bring this here and It's a little bit interesting because this live, I could feel it just before we were going on. This live is just really me and you talking. However, it almost seems like me and you are doing a public speaking event. So there's still a little bit of those jitters. So anyways, I'm hoping that I can come here and be very clear and explain exactly what I do and how it will. So yeah, just

(01:11-01:37) Roshan Chander
Do you want to share something else? Yes, I was just going to say. So as you said, just a little quick introduction on myself. I do work with founders, VPs, product managers and project managers as well. And really, as much as that title means something, to me, it actually doesn't. It's more the weight behind it. And usually...

(01:38-02:06) Roshan Chander
What that weight is, is these hidden decision loops that affect the client's time, revenue and trust and authority within their team. And for myself, what I do is very, very simple. It's just to show them that and help them cut that. Now, my story is I actually went to the school of hard knocks to figure all of this out. So when I was in corporate, I could be very composed and calm on the outside, but inside,

(02:07-02:34) Roshan Chander
My mind was just full of these loops. So when I was able to cut that, everything changed. And now that's what I help leaders do. So there's my little jambled intro there. Well, thanks. That's really interesting. And let's dive deeper. You know what I feel sometimes? Like I'm running a business before, even before my corporate career. Sometimes you kind of know you're doing everything right.

(02:34-02:52) Daria Rudnik
But you feel stuck. Okay, what is that? Like, why am I doing everything right? Everyone else tells me you're doing everything right. But there's kind of no movement, no traction. And I've seen that in my clients as well. Leaders trying things, but they get stuck. Why? What happens? So...

(02:52-03:16) Roshan Chander
It's a lot of the times we think it's because of the workload or it's because of the pressure. And that's true. But what we don't see is those hidden loops that are keeping our decisions stalled and affecting those aspects of our work that are really slowing us down and making us feel stuck. So a lot of times what we do is we try to look for a strategy to fix that.

(03:17-03:40) Roshan Chander
And what we should do instead, the first step to that is actually remove the fog that is affecting the strategy you want to implement. So we just jump to solutions when we should just remove that fog, get some more clarity. So that's where this understanding of the loop comes in. And this loop kind of hides in those situations like,

(03:41-04:10) Roshan Chander
When we're either trying to hire or when we're trying to fire someone and we just are stalling for that reason. Like we just don't want to make that decision. But it also shows up when we know we want to say no. Our gut says no, but we say yes. And then there's also those moments when you know where you are currently in your career. You need to make a move, but you just don't want to make that move due to fear or self-doubt, whatever that may be.

(04:11-04:25) Roshan Chander
So we don't notice these loops until it's too late. Now, I wouldn't say too late, but until they've really cost us something or it's really slowed us down. Does that answer your question?

(04:25-04:50) Roshan Chander
I mean, is it something like, you know that you need to make a decision, but you're not making decisions? Like, what is the loop? Is this the loop when you need to make a decision, but you don't? Like, what is it? It's the pattern that shows up with a different face all the time. So it is that. It is like you need to make a decision, but for whatever reason, and usually it comes down to a few things. It comes down to confidence. It comes down to doubt. And it comes down to judgment of yourself.

(04:50-05:12) Roshan Chander
And that may sound like therapy speak, but everything starts with the mind and how we help people move through that is helping them understand that first. So, yes, it's always it's always what keeps you in that cycle is you are not you are doing the same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result. That is really what the core of the loop.

(05:13-05:43) Roshan Chander
So it probably could be something like, like choosing, always choosing the safe option or always choosing for the most risky option. But no matter what the situation is, the choice is, it's always the same. Is that? You're saying it, you're saying it much more eloquently than me. So that's perfect what you just said. You are right. It's always, it's always, there's a level of safety we're always looking for. So we're always choosing that safe option. So let's go back to that. When I was talking about the hiring and firing, like,

(05:43-06:12) Roshan Chander
It's safer just to stay stuck and just stay exactly where you are, meaning you're not you don't need to hire somebody because you're worried about the budget and you're worried if this new person that's going to come in is actually going to fill the role that you need for what you've described as what the need is. And then the firing is, well, what happens when we lose that person? What's going to happen? But also we're worried about the interpersonal dynamics of that as well. So you're very correct on how you explain that story.

(06:12-06:39) Roshan Chander
So again, my next kind of question is, how do you know? Well, sometimes you need to make a decision, but sometimes you need some time to kind of think and reflect. How do you know when you're in the loop or it's your strategy of decision making? I think it's, and this may come a little bit later in our conversation as well, but it's really understanding that what we typically do in life, in our career, is we're always reacting to things. And we're always trying to fix things in the moment.

(06:40-07:07) Roshan Chander
But if you can actually start noticing, where is this pattern? Where is this pattern that I'm stuck in? Like all our lives are just history repeating itself. So we can see this pattern in other areas of our life. It could be career, but it also could be personal, personal life where we can see, OK, this is where I typically stall because I'm afraid of judgment or I'm doubting myself. So that is that reoccurring loop that keeps showing up.

(07:08-07:20) Roshan Chander
And in your career as a team leader, how did you first recognize your own loop? Okay. Well, I actually first recognized my first loop at a very, very young age.

(07:21-07:49) Roshan Chander
I used to see my parents' loops and I saw how their loops affected their decisions, how it delayed them, how it stalled them in life, in career and in their life in general. And as I got older, wow, Roshan noticed he inherited his parents' loops. So I was always looking for that safety. And my safety was interesting. As I dove into this, it was like a lack of self-trust. Like I just didn't trust myself to always make the right decisions.

(07:50-08:15) Roshan Chander
So when I got into corporate life, that's when it really started to show up. And I was in real estate development. So we had to make very quick decisions on projects, on financing, a lot of complex aspects, like most businesses. And with that, I could see how that loop that I was stuck in, not trusting myself, not wanting to stay safe, didn't want to get blamed if I made the wrong decision.

(08:15-08:31) Roshan Chander
how that slowed the decisions of myself, but really of my team as well. Because when you have an unsure leader, if I'm not sure of myself, they're not going to be sure of themselves. So when I was able to finally cut that loop,

(08:31-08:54) Roshan Chander
And really, you know, I don't want to sound philosophical and say I started trusting myself, but I had to really understand what the root of that was and being able to see how that wasn't helping me in my career. And I needed to make those quicker decisions. Everything changed. Everything changed. And I could see the difference of how quick that sorry, I could see how quick that difference

(08:55-09:05) Roshan Chander
of cutting that loop changed the team and how they made decisions themselves. Because Roshan wasn't always trying to weigh out 50 million different things and saying, we'll make a decision tomorrow.

(09:05-09:35) Daria Rudnik
It sounds like a superpower, seeing the loops. Some people see something unseen and Roshan sees the loops. And especially, I mean, parents, like parents, like we're so blind about our parents, but you were able to see that. And how other people, leaders, your coach, I don't know, me, people who listen to this, how can we see those loops? Well, I think the first thing, like as far as like just a shift that can help,

(09:36-09:57) Roshan Chander
I think it goes back to that first part, Daria, where it's like you're able to, if you can, if you can stop reacting all the time, because life is just a bunch of reactions and it shouldn't be, it should be a bunch of responses. We should be responding a bit more, taking the time to really understand those patterns. This is my advice would be,

(09:58-10:28) Roshan Chander
stop trying to fix things in the moment and just take a step back and go, okay, is this, like if something feels really stuck, have I felt this before or have I been stuck in this before in this kind of muck? We'll call it muck for right now. Have I been stuck in this muck, this loop? And if so, that's the loop. That's where you're at. And I'd like to say cutting it's a whole, there's a little bit of a process to it. There's a framework to it.

(10:28-10:57) Roshan Chander
But I'm not trying to sell the answer that awareness is everything. Awareness is not everything. Awareness is just the first step. So we sometimes want so many, the whole framework, we want to just jump ahead. I would say the first thing is just start being aware. But knowing that awareness is just the first step and it is not the answer. The answer is the action, which is the cut. Did I answer that question?

(10:57-11:26) Roshan Chander
Yeah, I want a magic field. Do you have a magic field? But one thing that I do do with executives and founders when they first come to me is I look for the pattern underneath the words. So that's the key is that we're speaking right now, but there's loops occurring right now itself, right? So we have to be really understanding of what that pattern is. And that's where my superpower is, is understanding what is being

(11:26-11:52) Roshan Chander
said, no, sorry, what is being not said. And because there's a split between what people say and what people do. Hopefully I'm going to get into the camera. Yes, what people say and what people do. And that is where the loop hides, Daria. It's sneaky. It's sneaky. So it hides right there. And what I take them through is just an audit to start with. And that audit

(11:53-12:22) Roshan Chander
I ask a series of questions that brings everything to the surface and pulls out those loops. And with that, you're able to see on paper what exactly is happening. And that's the first step. I think you have to audit. And people can do this on their own as well. If you really spend the time with yourself and just look at the decisions you've made over the last month. Let's make it easy. Let's actually give some framework. Let's look at all the decisions you did for the last 30 days.

(12:23-12:46) Roshan Chander
and see where you held off on a decision. See where you stalled. See where you delayed. You will find the pattern. It'll take a little bit of work. It'll take a little bit of brain power. It will take a lot of honesty. I was going to say awareness, but we already know awareness is part of it. It will take a lot of honesty. And once you can audit your decisions, you can find those loops. Breaking it,

(12:46-13:05) Daria Rudnik
That's a different, that's the next step. But at least you'll have everything on paper where you can see what's exactly going on. Okay. Let's say I'm going to do this exercise after alcohol during weekends. So what I do, I write all the decisions I made or have like needed to make or maybe didn't make, but needed to.

(13:06-13:24) Roshan Chander
I would all of the above of what you just said. So the process with me is that I would go through all those questions. Like I would go through all those questions when you're doing it with yourself. You have to you can leave no rock unturned. So it's the decisions that you made, the decisions that you didn't make, the decisions that

(13:24-13:47) Roshan Chander
you didn't even want to make that you didn't even want to bring into your mind they're like at the back they're hiding they're hiding it's like oh like you know a lot of this does tend to sometimes our personal life as well because it's a ripple effect and i think you would agree or actually i can't say that would you agree that there is a ripple effect between our career choices and our personal choices

(13:48-13:58) Roshan Chander
Right. So we have to look at all of our decisions, not just the business decision, not just our career decisions, but also our personal decisions. And when we can map that all out, you will see.

(14:00-14:19) Roshan Chander
You will be able to connect the dots and you'll be able to say, look at them and say, I'm trying to be safe here. And this is why I'm trying to be safe in whatever list. You'll be able to clump your decisions together. So that's exactly what you would do. Write down all of your decisions that you have made, haven't made, the ones that you don't want to look at.

(14:20-14:47) Roshan Chander
and then put them into groups, and then be able to identify why you haven't been able to make, I mean, sorry, look at the decisions, all the decisions why you made them, write down why you made them. The decisions that you didn't make, why you didn't make them. The decisions that are hiding, why are they hiding, right? So this is a process that would bring a lot of

(14:47-15:05) Roshan Chander
out of those loops forefront, and then you can decide what to do with them from there. But again, the disclaimer or the caveat in this is action is the solution. Awareness is not the solution. Cool. I mean, I like this. I'm going to do that. I'll let you know how it goes. I can't wait to hear.

(15:06-15:35) Daria Rudnik
But there's another question to that. So we're talking about decisions. Well, things that we kind of consciously think about, okay, should I go here or should I go there? What about things we don't consciously make decisions? Like something that happens automatically because we used to do that. You're like, what do you do with that? So what you're talking about, it's funny because I've been using this word a lot and it can be construed into different ways. But you're talking about autopilot, right? Like when you're just making decisions,

(15:35-15:52) Roshan Chander
You know, this is a very, very interesting question and I appreciate you bringing it up because there's certain things that we do to protect ourselves. There's certain decisions that we do in our career. Let's talk about career specifically that we do to protect ourselves. One thing, one decision could be like,

(15:53-16:18) Roshan Chander
Even though you're in a leadership position, you're always trying to get buy-in from people. That's your patter. That's the same thing. That's the autopilot, right? And that's you trying to be safe and not fully trusting yourself to make those decisions. So I think even doing an audit, if you can, all of the, and again, this is part of my process, is doing the audit of all of those decisions that are on autopilot.

(16:19-16:44) Roshan Chander
The thing with those is that they're very sneaky themselves too, because you don't know all of them. So I would love to say the best thing to do is take a vacation by yourself, go up to a nice little cozy cabin, take a pen and paper with you. Don't take your phone and do the work and do this work. But your question is a very valuable one for a lot of people, because

(16:45-17:11) Roshan Chander
The autopilot where we're just keeping on doing the same thing because it worked at one time for us. We have to audit that to see if it's still working. I think you've heard. Have you heard the saying where it's a business saying that goes, we've always done it this way? Yeah. Yeah. I heard it a lot. Right. And we mock it, especially on LinkedIn. We mock that statement because it's true. It's like we've always done it this way.

(17:11-17:34) Roshan Chander
That's the energy you want to bring to this exercise as well, is if I've always done it this way, it may not be working anymore, right? There's certain things that you did, decisions that you made when you were younger, Darya, that don't work anymore. And you've cut that loop. You've chosen something different. So when we get to a certain age, we think...

(17:35-17:49) Roshan Chander
Like, you know how they say, what is it, the old dog? Old dog can't learn new tricks. We can't fall into that. We always have to be auditing. We always have to audit our decision process or else we're going to be stuck. At some point, we're going to get stuck.

(17:49-18:15) Daria Rudnik
It's funny because, I mean, in business, you do audits, you do inventory, but with our personal lives, we don't do that. And I'm kind of a big fan of stepping back and reflect, but I think kind of being more deliberate about what are you looking at? Does it mean, like, what are you reflecting upon? Okay, here's the list of decisions. Here are the things I'm doing automatically without even thinking. Yeah, that's a good practice.

(18:15-18:35) Roshan Chander
And that's when we started the discussion, I mentioned about not trying to implement strategy, but try and remove the fog first. That's what removes the fog, Dario. And it's so vital, but nobody wants to do it because everybody's looking for the next productivity hack to make them more efficient at their work.

(18:35-19:03) Roshan Chander
When you're skipping so many steps and this work is hard, it's not easy because it's a lot of really looking at yourself from a very micro vision of yourself. So it's not easy. So people just want to skip it and go, hey, if I wake up at 5 a.m., is that going to help my decision? Great, I'll do that. I can make more decisions then, right? If I wake up an hour early, great. I make a hundred or I make a thousand decisions is probably closer to what we do.

(19:03-19:33) Roshan Chander
But now I can make 1,200 decisions. Like, you see where this is going kind of thing. Yeah, I kind of always push. Okay, move forward, next step, next checkmark. But okay, sometimes stop and do some audits and where it goes. Yeah, and it's personal. And like you said, you said something very, very key was we do audits in our business all the time. And the personal audit, I just want to make sure we're not talking about therapy.

(19:33-20:02) Roshan Chander
We're talking about being able to be really able to see yourself so that you can cut what is holding you back so you can move forward in your career. This is not about you all of a sudden being so self-aware that you're meditating on a mountain. That's not what we're talking. We're talking about your career. And we're also talking about the ripple effect of how that brings it to your life. I'm happy you found that funny too. So yeah, yeah, that's exactly. I just want to make that distinction.

(20:03-20:29) Roshan Chander
Do you have a story? I mean, some of your clients who went through this transformation and what happened to them? I have a few, but I can give a good story. And obviously, I have to keep the total details. But I can say I was very closely related in the industry with this person. This person, I think, was on the part about...

(20:29-20:54) Roshan Chander
the gut part about saying yes when they meant no, and also about the firing part. And that had to do with a lot of personal self-judgment the person had. And so that was their loop. And this person was very, and is very, very successful. But that loop was really affecting, as much as it caused them mental anguish,

(20:54-21:21) Roshan Chander
It cost the bottom line. And through the work that we did together, and it wasn't something that happened overnight, but within the first couple of months, they were able to completely shift or cut that loop that was keeping them in that stuck area. And their revenue changed. When I say revenue change, it's funny. Their revenue increased. And not that I'm taking full credit or my process taking full credit. I give the credit fully to the client.

(21:21-21:43) Roshan Chander
But it was a ripple effect within the business of what actually changed. And when I say the revenue went up, it was considerable to the point that the financial burden that this person was also feeling had lifted, which was great. But yeah, I would say that's a very, that's one that has spawned into other versions of it. There's a lot of that same version that I see in a lot of people.

(21:44-22:13) Daria Rudnik
Well, thanks for sharing. It's super interesting. And my final question is like, what can listeners do today to start finding those loops, dealing with those loops? What small shift they can make? Can I give two options? Yeah. I haven't taken up too much time, right? No, no, it's all good. Okay, so I think the first thing goes back to the thing about pausing. And as ethereal and as

(22:14-22:41) Roshan Chander
philosophical as that sounds it's not it's like stop reacting take the moment do that personal audit understand whenever you get stuck have i been here before like you have to understand that or else you will just keep doing the same thing over and over hoping a different result which i think is einstein's definition of insanity and i think a lot of us are insane according to that description

(22:42-23:11) Roshan Chander
So it's really getting that, doing that audit. The other option is if you would like me to walk you through that audit, I have on my, if people were to go to my LinkedIn page, I do offer a complimentary audit for now. So we can go through that process themselves. But if somebody just really wants to go through the process by themselves, exactly what I said to Daria earlier, which is start with that, start with harnessing self-awareness, do the audit.

(23:12-23:34) Roshan Chander
not the self-awareness, do the audit on yourself. Understand what decisions you've made over the last 30 days, what decisions you did not make, and then what decisions you were hiding. And even with that, if people who listen to that, if they want to send me those things and want me to give them some feedback, they're free to contact me or DM me on LinkedIn and we can go from there as

(23:35-24:04) Roshan Chander
Cool. That's a very generous offer. So again, kind of to summarize, what's how people can reach out to you? Like, what's the best way? The best way, the most direct way is through LinkedIn. Is go on my profile, send me a DM. I answer all of my DMs. So yeah, that's probably the best way. And if you just want to jump to the audit, I have a link in my profile in my featured section. And you can just go through my landing page right through there and we can meet up there.

(24:05-24:26) Daria Rudnik
Thank you so much, Roshan. It's so interesting to learn about those loops and how to make better decisions. I've learned a lot. I'm sure our listeners as well. So thank you so much. I appreciate this. Again, appreciate you giving me the time to come on with you and always enjoy our conversations and hope to have more, Daria. Okay. Bye-bye.