(00:00-00:26) Daria Rudnik
Hi, I want to welcome Pavel here. And I know Pavel from quite a long time ago. I'm not going to tell you why and when. Pavel has a very interesting story of moving from corporate executive to an entrepreneur and business owner, like spreading into different countries. And I want to talk about his story. And now, Pavel, to you, please tell us something about yourself and about your journey.

(00:27-00:43) Pavel Kovsharov
Yeah, thank you, Daria, for inviting me for this conversation. And just a little bit apologize for my English. But from my point of view, the most important, not just the language, but also about the story and what is behind of me.

(00:43-00:58) Pavel Kovsharov
So yeah, we met with Daria a lot of times ago when I was in the communication business. But from my point of view, maybe it will be more interesting if we'll start even earlier.

(00:59-01:24) Pavel Kovsharov
I became an entrepreneur at age 16, sorry, at that time of admission of the first year of university. So it was my first year in university. So I opened my first company, if you can talk like this. It was a cafe in my hometown, in my home city.

(01:24-01:52) Pavel Kovsharov
And after that, I just devoted myself to studying in the last three, four years. This was fully in studying. And after graduation, I moved to Moscow because my whole town is in Belgrade. It's on the border of Ukraine. So I moved to Moscow just to find, I would say, my dream, my dream.

(01:52-02:20) Pavel Kovsharov
work, my dream company. Yeah. So this is how I started. I mean, even from 16, I already was in the business. And the first year of my business, I changed three different businesses. And I just trying to make at the same time after school, business and graduation and first year of university. That's amazing. I didn't know that about you. That's cool.

(02:21-02:35) Pavel Kovsharov
So that's why like entrepreneurship, it's just in my heart and my soul from beginning. Yeah. So in Moscow, I worked in a company like a sales manager in IT company and

(02:36-03:03) Pavel Kovsharov
Gradually, I grew up, become the head of some department. And at one moment, I just started to be like a manager into a communication company. I worked like 12 years into a communication company. Yes. But at the same time, I just always wanted to be an entrepreneur. As I told you before, it just was the part of me.

(03:03-03:27) Pavel Kovsharov
and it's really important from my point of view that um when i was just on corporate uh in in big companies i also uh how to say my relations to my job was like entrepreneur i mean it i'm just i just feeling this is just not not just job and just every time trying to do

(03:27-03:51) Pavel Kovsharov
the best because, I mean, it cannot be like... I know that a lot of people just working like from eight to six and that's it. Maybe even they don't love their job. From my point of view, it's not the right situation. And if you just don't fully involve in the process, don't fully involve in what you're doing, you're just destroying not the company, you're destroying yourself.

(03:51-04:12) Pavel Kovsharov
So just trying to be from beginning, I mean, my relations to the companies was like entrepreneur, you know? And one day when I was just on vacation, it was a long vacation. It was a vacation to the easternmost part of Russia, the Bering Islands. It just...

(04:12-04:34) Pavel Kovsharov
and the board of USA, Alaska. When I just was in the sea, like two days, I decided that it's time to start my own business. Yeah. It was a really difficult decision because, of course, I mean, when you're a manager, you have a good salary, you have a car, you have a big team, and et cetera, et cetera. So it's really hard to make a decision.

(04:34-04:53) Pavel Kovsharov
And especially at that moment, I have already a family and my wife delivered the first son. We waited him like seven years and I was really happy. Maybe even moreover, I think maybe the first son was like a trigger for me just to make a final decision.

(04:53-05:18) Pavel Kovsharov
At that moment, I decided that it's the only time when I can just change my career just to cancel it and to start my new life, my new career. And it was a really difficult decision. A lot of people after that just asking me, how you make this decision? Because, I mean, if you are in a good position in corporate, it's absolutely impossible just to change.

(05:18-05:35) Pavel Kovsharov
Maybe just the guys who is working in big four, like McKinsey and BCG, maybe they, when they just becoming to be a partner after several years, they can be a part of some big companies. Usually, commonly, it's really difficult to make this decision.

(05:35-05:53) Pavel Kovsharov
Most of entrepreneurs, which I'm talking about, like how you start your business, most of them started like from beginning, I don't know, from 20 years, not just to changing the corporate life to entrepreneurship. So this is how I start. Yeah.

(05:54-06:23) Daria Rudnik
That's amazing. I mean, that's so interesting. And I agree with you when you say it's hard to start your business. Like for me personally, like I was an executive level in the company, but like the movement, like my transition from Russia to Israel actually forced me to start it as a business and start doing something. I don't know if I would have the courage to do that on my own without that external push. So, I mean, that's great that you had the courage to do that, to make this decision. Yeah.

(06:24-06:37) Daria Rudnik
I mean, it sounds like you started with the cafe and now you have, again, it's a business of providing service, giving people fun. Just tell us about your business. What is it that you're doing?

(06:38-06:58) Pavel Kovsharov
Yeah, so I'm the founder of Family Entertainment Centers. In Russia, the brand is Zamania. We have 20 family centers. Each of them is like from 2,000 to 3,000 square meters. We rent location space in the malls.

(06:58-07:26) Pavel Kovsharov
And making big playgrounds, activity playground for the kids. They age from 1 to 10. And also the family restaurant inside. So the main difference between us and just standard family entertainment centers in Europe, in the U.S., in other countries that we're really caring about parents. We're making a good cafe or good restaurant inside. And it's really...

(07:26-07:45) Pavel Kovsharov
let's say, comfortable place for the parents. Because usually when you just come into family centers, I mean, you are like a parent, you are like an adult, you don't know what to do. I mean, you need to stand or you need to wait. So it's really uncomfortable. And when you're just making decisions,

(07:45-08:03) Pavel Kovsharov
just to back to this family center or maybe to another one. Of course, you just will decide not only because if it's interesting for the kids, but also if it's comfortable for you. So this is the main difference.

(08:03-08:29) Pavel Kovsharov
And yeah, I started this business like almost 10 years ago. And frankly speaking, I just built up the business in the first four years. And after six years, it was quite difficult. I mean, of course, you know, about the last five years, it was pandemia, it was a start of war, etc. I mean, it's a lot of things which quite a strong influence for my business. Yeah.

(08:29-08:59) Pavel Kovsharov
But generally, it's, as you told before, it's a service business. We need to think about our guests every day because every year almost maybe 2 million guests is coming to our chain and we're making like 40,000 birthdays in our chain per year. Now it's even more because we have also family centers in UAE. I will tell you a little bit later about this part of business.

(08:59-09:16) Pavel Kovsharov
So this is what we have. And also we have a big kitchen. It's like 1,500, like a small factory, 1,500 square meters. And we started to make cakes for the birthdays.

(09:16-09:46) Pavel Kovsharov
And now we also produce for retail, like desserts. Every day we send maybe six to 10,000 desserts to retailers. So this is like business in business, you know, inside. Yeah. That's great. This is it. Yeah. What helps you keep moving? I know it's challenging. I mean, again, yes, these were challenging years for everyone, for many people. What, what helps you keep moving?

(09:47-10:10) Pavel Kovsharov
Oh, it's really interesting and difficult question because, I mean, in 2020, at the one moment, we just stopped the business like for four months almost. And we just need to file like 1,000 people at just almost like one day.

(10:10-10:39) Pavel Kovsharov
And in four months after that, we just need to hire these 1,000 people again. So it was really difficult because, I mean, inside of me, I just made the decision that I'm in bankruptcy. It's just impossible to continue after that. And after that, just all steps I'm doing just to improve my business, to start a new business.

(10:40-11:05) Pavel Kovsharov
First, like five, six months, it was like based on internal resources of my body, of my health, I mean, based on adrenaline. And of course, I just worked like 24 hours and just trying to do something just to save my company. And at that moment, I also hired a couple of new top managers and a new CEO.

(11:05-11:32) Pavel Kovsharov
And in the end of 2020, when I just understood that I don't have any resources inside, I mean, just at that moment, I just didn't like, I don't know how to tell it. I just lied on the sofa for like days and days because I just didn't have any resources inside. And like my new team at that moment already started to support me.

(11:32-11:51) Pavel Kovsharov
because we, how to say, reopened our family centers and we just started the business. The best involved for me, the best energy for me was like first revenue and first margin when it started again. But generally, I mean, if you're talking about like

(11:51-12:14) Pavel Kovsharov
resources, energy. It's, of course, my family. And I also work a lot with a coach. It was like first moment when I started to work with coach. And he's also helped me at that moment. So this was just like internal resources. How not to die in that moment. Mm-hmm.

(12:15-12:36) Pavel Kovsharov
Yeah, it was a really difficult period, but what I'm thinking right now that only because I had this period, I have also the ability for myself to, how to say, to increase like an entrepreneur. I mean, even if it will be

(12:36-13:02) Pavel Kovsharov
I don't know, new business, I've changed really, really much, and now I'm strong. And you cannot increase personally and the business if you don't have such kind of difficulties on your way. It's impossible. Only if you have big difficulties and you just have just the power...

(13:02-13:11) Pavel Kovsharov
To solve it, only in this case, you can change like yourself. It's my opinion. And of course, it's helped me in the future. Yeah. I wish there were an easier way.

(13:11-13:39) Pavel Kovsharov
It's impossible to find an easy way when we're talking about entrepreneurship. I mean, if you don't have problems, you don't have business. If you have big goals, you will have, in any case, big issues, big problems on your way. The question is how you just relate to these issues, to this problem. I absolutely understand that when we just come to a new country, to a new business,

(13:39-14:08) Pavel Kovsharov
I absolutely understand that it will be a lot of issues, but I'm ready to this. I just understand. I mean, I don't have any, how to say, mirrors that it will be like paradise. It will be not the issue because it's a different country. No, no, no, no. Of course, it will be a lot of issues and I just have a power to solve it. That's it. So, yeah, tell us about the new countries and how you're expanding your business to other countries, other cultures. How is it going?

(14:09-14:30) Pavel Kovsharov
Yeah. You know, I always just wanted an international company. I started the U.S. market in 2018 and opened a company there, opened an account. I found an investor and we sent money, transferred money to U.S. and I spent some money for analysis of the markets.

(14:30-14:47) Pavel Kovsharov
So, I mean, I spent a lot of time there and it was the end of 19. And if you remember in 2020 begin, so it started pandemic. So we just close all my accounts and the company. At that moment, I just send money back to investors.

(14:47-15:17) Pavel Kovsharov
But it was like ambitions in any case to start the business, like international business. And after I started the war, not too many countries where I can just start the business, you know. And I decided that the best country for me will be Arab Emirates. And just I went to this country to start the business there. And every time when I just started like a new country, I heard the same questions.

(15:18-15:44) Pavel Kovsharov
from anybody. I don't believe that in this country you don't have competitors, they don't have like family centers, especially if you're talking about like US, especially if you're talking about Dubai, how it's possible. I mean, Dubai is like, it's like the, let's see, the center of entertainment in this part of the world. So, but what we're doing, I mean, our family centers, it's totally different.

(15:44-16:12) Pavel Kovsharov
Because we are just working mostly with the locals. I mean, the people who is living there, not just for tourists, you know? And it's like a restaurant or banks. In any case, when you just start a new business, I don't know, new hotel or new restaurant. Of course, it's a lot of hotels and restaurants worldwide. So the question is, what are you doing differently?

(16:12-16:33) Pavel Kovsharov
and why the guest is coming to you. So in like three years ago, I started the business in Dubai. And at that moment, I mean, now we have three family centers, three family entertainment centers, two in Dubai and one in Abu Dhabi. In Abu Dhabi, we just opened three weeks ago, the third one.

(16:34-17:00) Pavel Kovsharov
And yeah, in two months, maybe even less, we will open the number four. And we also signed and starting design for two new projects in Dubai. And we also under signing in Viyadh, Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. So for me, this is, how say, my goal for nearest years to open like...

(17:00-17:24) Pavel Kovsharov
20-plus projects on this market. And as I told, it's a lot of issues there. It's a new country. I mean, it's a different religion, different everything. When you're just trying to, how to say, even just to make an approval, it's dozens and dozens of approvals on this market. Not like in Russia we have.

(17:24-17:40) Pavel Kovsharov
And you can be, I mean, the restaurant or, for example, family entertainment center can be ready fully, like 100%, but you cannot open it without additional approval and you can just wait one or two months.

(17:40-18:03) Pavel Kovsharov
You're paying salary, you're paying everything, rent, etc. But you cannot open. But generally, it's a really good market. And I just understand that you know what is return of investment. So I have my own return of investment for a year of my life. And based on this formula, return of investments for the year of my life,

(18:03-18:25) Pavel Kovsharov
Just understand that if I will spend my own resources on this market right now, it will be more effective for me. And generally, when we're talking about business, the capitalization, the revenue margin is much more bigger than in Russia. So this is just, I decided to continue to work there.

(18:25-18:46) Pavel Kovsharov
But I have also the dream, as I told before, to start on the U.S. market. We already, I would say, started new analysis. We already made it two months ago, and we started the process for the U.S. market also. I'm sure you'll make it. I have no doubts you'll make it. Yeah.

(18:47-19:02) Daria Rudnik
And it's very interesting the way you say it, like the return on investment, not just on money, but your personal time, your personal energy, your personal effort. So that also comes in. That's a cost. I mean, that's a cost of running your business. Yeah. Yeah.

(19:03-19:33) Pavel Kovsharov
You know, we just every time need to compare where's a better place for life, for the business and et cetera. And we just decided with my family that this is the best time and the best place for now. Maybe in the future it will change. I don't know. But the nearest couple of several years will be there. And yeah, family is also happy just because it's also quite interesting because, I mean, you are in...

(19:33-19:51) Pavel Kovsharov
in your country. So it's a lot of different mentality. It's not just one mentality of Arabic. You know, it's dozens of nationalities there. For example, in my boys, I mean, you see a classroom, they have 20 kids.

(19:51-20:11) Pavel Kovsharov
25 kids and 20 nationalities. You know, you're just trying to understand at least all these nationalities. It's quite interesting cultures. So we're just trying to be involved in this process and it's quite interesting for the kids also and for my wife. So yeah, this is an international...

(20:12-20:39) Daria Rudnik
Yeah, well, that's really an amazing job you're doing. I've been following you and your business, I mean, since the beginning. And I've seen your posts and how you write about the culture, how you talk about culture, how you talk about people, and building this family center, not as a kind of business of earning money, but kind of providing this happiness for people and employees. Tell us about the culture you're building.

(20:40-21:06) Pavel Kovsharov
You know, the more I'm thinking about this, the more I understand that it's really difficult things to make a culture, but it's really, how to say, needed for the business. So the first person I hired in Russia was an HR manager. And she later became a chief and operation officer, but I mean, she helped me create the company's culture.

(21:07-21:26) Pavel Kovsharov
And from my point of view, it was the right decision from beginning. Because, I mean, what you're talking with your team, how you do this, how often, and et cetera, it's really, really important. And company culture is just the attitude of the founders

(21:26-21:38) Pavel Kovsharov
towards his business, people, clients, and it's his principles, his goals, and his connection with the team, and it's on a daily basis.

(21:38-22:08) Pavel Kovsharov
You know, the company's culture can be and even will definitely change during the company growing, during the company changing. Because, I mean, when you started, it was like a family. After that, maybe a sport team. So it's growing. And the more people in the company, then, I'll say, you need to spend more time for this. Because from the beginning, you just can't talk with the team. I mean, it's just 20, 30 people.

(22:08-22:18) Pavel Kovsharov
you see them every day and they knew about you everything and you knew about them everything but if you have the 1000 it's quite difficult

(22:19-22:44) Pavel Kovsharov
I would say, to be in touch with them just every day, I mean, to tell them about your principles, about your goals and etc. So, and you spend more time for this. I can say that it was completely, my company, my culture was completely destroyed in our country after COVID.

(22:44-23:04) Pavel Kovsharov
What happens? First, it was like COVID and just quite a lot of people. And second, the new CEO came and he has also like own top managers. And it was like at the same time,

(23:04-23:31) Pavel Kovsharov
You just crash your company, you fight everybody, and you fight the new team. And at that moment, it started like a new company, new culture. And in just a couple of years, I understood that it's not my company. It's not my culture, you know. And if I just will, how to say, continue to work like this, I just will lose my company at all.

(23:31-23:53) Pavel Kovsharov
So, of course, I tried to change everything. And now it's really difficult time because I just trying to broke this, I'll say, not my culture, I mean, the principles which was made just these top managers from outside and trying to explain again.

(23:53-24:19) Pavel Kovsharov
what we are what we are doing and uh why we're doing this etc and as i told you it's on daily basis i mean you just need to spend a lot of time for this but if you have really good and strong strong strong culture like in some saying the culture can eat the strategy you know it's it's really important because the company can change

(24:19-24:32) Pavel Kovsharov
can make a pivot. Now your family entertainment center, tomorrow I don't know your hotel or restaurants. But if you have a strong team, so you can just change. And you know, it's interesting that right now I have two different companies.

(24:33-24:54) Pavel Kovsharov
like in Russia and in Emirates, and they don't have any connections. Yeah. I mean, they even don't share any experience right now. And it's even different culture. And the company I start in OE right now, for me, is easy.

(24:54-25:22) Pavel Kovsharov
from culture point of view we change i mean all team all guys is just new one and when they just coming i explain to them what i'm expecting from them from the company and what is our goal and what we are doing and etc so i don't need just to break i just need to create and in russia i just need first to break and then to create so it's uh it's quite difficult

(25:22-25:39) Daria Rudnik
I mean, that's so important lesson for everyone who's hearing that. Just building from start and paying attention to culture so that you don't have to change it afterwards. Because otherwise something will happen. Some culture will emerge. If you don't create this culture you want, some culture will emerge and you don't know whether you like it or not.

(25:39-26:03) Pavel Kovsharov
Yeah, I mean, and of course, I mean, in any case, you need to control. So based on my own experience, if you just, if you provide a lot of abilities for the top managers, they can change your company and it will be not your company, you know. So in any case, you need to control. You need to be a leader. You need to be a main person in any case, because I mean, it's your company.

(26:04-26:27) Pavel Kovsharov
So you mentioned principles, like, do you want to share what are your principles? What are your leadership principles, life principles? Yeah. You know, as I told you from beginning, I just hired the HR manager and she asked me like every year, let's write like the mission and et cetera. And every time the answer from my site was just, I'm not ready.

(26:27-26:55) Pavel Kovsharov
I don't just to make a mission because everybody do this. But I mean, in three years, I just understood that it's a time. I just need to write what I'm thinking about, what we are doing and why. That's it. I mean, it was just quite common. So I wrote it down and we started to work using this mission and using the principles. So...

(26:56-27:12) Pavel Kovsharov
and uh i just write it down like a memorandum what are the principles and i made the website like my surname dot are you every every uh

(27:12-27:38) Pavel Kovsharov
employee just who is coming to our company need to understand what are the principles, what are the missions, etc. And also in welcome books, we wrote all these things just because, I mean, if you at least will not tell to your employee why you're working or what, I mean, it's not on your mind. They will not just, they will not understand it. They will not close to you, to your goals, to your mission.

(27:38-27:54) Pavel Kovsharov
So, yeah, that's it. So, I mean, once again, it's a daily basis work. You need just to think, because especially when you're talking about service, the people is, how to say, it's a big rotation.

(27:54-28:19) Pavel Kovsharov
In restaurants, in hospitality business, it's a big rotation. So you need to spend a lot of time, daily basis, at least to explain to new employees what you're doing and why. Because, I mean, if it's just money, it's work, maybe, I don't know, six months, 12 months, I mean, some period. But it cannot motivate you to work a long time.

(28:19-28:42) Pavel Kovsharov
Especially if you need to work like not just eight hours, but I mean, if you just want, that employee will provide a really great service. If you expect that they will think about your company, about your mission, about your culture, like every time. So in this case, of course, you need to spend also a lot of energy for them.

(28:43-29:01) Daria Rudnik
That's so interesting. Yeah. I mean, that's, I mean, I always love hearing about like leaders talking about building cultures because it's still a question. Okay. Is it HR? They need to do the culture. I'm not involved in building the culture or I don't need to build the culture because it's something, I mean, how can we calculate that? What's the ROI on culture, but.

(29:01-29:18) Pavel Kovsharov
He made mistakes like this. I felt like, yeah, I just need to hire the HR and he'll just cover all these questions. No, it's not working like this. And generally, everybody, I mean, top managers, just managers, entrepreneurs, like...

(29:18-29:45) Pavel Kovsharov
It looks like everybody understands what is it. And the only question is just, this is a really difficult job and you need to do it right now. That's it. I mean, you just, you cannot delegate this. This is maybe the most expensive lesson I learned from last several years. You cannot delegate the culture creating. It's just by owner, you know?

(29:45-30:07) Pavel Kovsharov
Of course, I mean, the right HR manager and partners, of course, they will help you. They know how to do maybe it's better, how to provide this to employees and stuff, etc. As you can see, when we're talking about real big companies, they started only based on, how to say, energy of the founder.

(30:08-30:37) Pavel Kovsharov
based on his culture, based on his dreams and et cetera. So, and we just need to show to every employee on daily basis, these thoughts, these like mission, these dreams of the founder. And this will help to the companies growing on daily basis. Love it. Yeah.

(30:38-30:59) Daria Rudnik
My final question is, I mean, the world is changing, like we all see that. The generations are changing, the way of working is changing, everything is kind of in constant transition. What do you think, how do organizations need to change to be ready for the future work? Of course, now everybody is talking about AI.

(31:00-31:18) Pavel Kovsharov
And you need to use this, otherwise you'll die in several years. Like a company, I mean, like a business. You need to use all new instruments. And it will be, I don't know, in 10 years, in 20, in 50 years, yeah.

(31:19-31:43) Pavel Kovsharov
Every time it will be new instruments and you just need to use this. But I mean, what you cannot change in any case, it's just, as we discussed before, your mission, your dream, your culture. So you cannot just change this. I mean, you just need to create this and just to support the growing of these thoughts, this dream, etc. So...

(31:44-32:09) Pavel Kovsharov
And globally, we can see a lot of changes, yeah? Like in logistics, in the relations between countries. And it's, I mean, it's normal. I mean, it will be changed like in centuries. So you just need to be adaptive, yeah? Generally, entrepreneurs are the most adaptive person.

(32:09-32:26) Pavel Kovsharov
because otherwise you will just die. So something in you and in your company, it's like, let's see, the heart of your business, you will not change, like, I don't know, culture, mission, I don't know, some relations to guests and et cetera.

(32:26-32:48) Pavel Kovsharov
But if you're talking about like instruments, of course it will change. And you need to be just in the beginning of these changes. I mean, right now, for example, we're using this like for design, I mean, for creating new projects. We're using this for creating dishes. We started to use this to discuss, to work with our guests, I mean, to discuss with our guests.

(32:48-33:07) Pavel Kovsharov
I mean, of course, we're trying to use the AI instrument as part of our business, but generally what we will not change is relations inside and relations with our guests. We need just to save the right relations with them.

(33:07-33:36) Pavel Kovsharov
Because everyone, I mean, you, me, just everyone, when we just come into a restaurant, to the hotel, of course, we would like to see the brilliant service. We just want, let's say, to care about us. And this cannot be changed by AI. It's just relations between people. If you just care about your friends, about your family, of course, you're feeling, let's say, the feedback. So this is the same.

(33:37-34:01) Daria Rudnik
So stick to a mission, build relationship and be adaptive with the tools. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm usually when we just, when I make an interview, I'm quite energy, but it's maybe first interview in English. Well, it's amazing. I love your story. The story is amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah. Thank you. Is there anything I haven't asked you, like anything else you want to say or share?

(34:02-34:23) Pavel Kovsharov
Maybe a couple of lessons which I just personally learned so I just can share. First, if you made a decision to change your life, you need to change your life. Please don't wait. Otherwise, I mean, you will just lose the right time.

(34:23-34:45) Pavel Kovsharov
second when you just start your business you need to start from how say from first team and you need to spend a lot of time for this first time employee and this is your partner because if you invest a lot of time and in the right time for them

(34:45-35:05) Pavel Kovsharov
These guys will be with you like for years, 10, 20 years. And this is the team who will help you in any case. The third number, it's about brand. Just the lesson about brand. You just, it's like your reputation.

(35:05-35:26) Pavel Kovsharov
You're spending a lot of time just for your reputation, and after that, your reputation is working for you. And the same with brand. You invest a lot of money, everything to the brand, and in years, the brand is starting to work for you. For example, about reputation.

(35:26-35:47) Pavel Kovsharov
I started the business in AE and I didn't invest any $1 from my personal side. It's based only my relations and investors just do it to me. And they invested to me for today's like $20 million and it will be more and more.

(35:47-36:07) Pavel Kovsharov
Only because I have a reputation, the person who can make a business, will return money back, etc. So it's really important. And I think not everybody do understand this. And this is not only about entrepreneurs. Because my first investor was the CEO of our company.

(36:07-36:31) Pavel Kovsharov
It means that I started to make my reputation when I was like a manager, just simple manager on corporate. I think it's quite important. Thanks. Thanks. That's a very important lesson. Thank you so much, Pavel. It's an amazing conversation. I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot. Well, thank you for having, thanks for being here. Yeah. Thank you very much for inviting me.