Daria Rudnik (00:02.314)
Welcome to Built by People Leaders. I'm your host, Daria Rudnik, and this show is for HR and L&D leaders, those building real impact from within and shaping AI ready organizations. Each episode, I sit down with people leaders to talk about how they build strong cultures and shape organizations around them. And it's about HR being seen as a true business partner by leaders and by HR themselves. So let's dive in. And today I have a very special guest, David Gonzalez.

David is a performance architect who helps hyper-growth companies replace bloated HR processes with high-velocity AI-driven talent ecosystems. Blending a PhD in performance improvement with an advertising mindset for high-stakes execution, he empowers C-suite leaders to automate administrative noise and unlock the human performance that actually scales revenue. He is currently on a mission to strip away HR bureaucracy, freeing leadership teams to focus entirely on the strategic signals that drive business growth. Welcome, David.

David (01:05.848)
Thank you so much, Daria I appreciate you having me on the show.

Daria Rudnik (01:09.47)
I'm so excited about this conversation. I have so many questions for you. But I want to start with one. In one of our previous conversations, you mentioned something about automating the human out of HR. What is it? Tell me about it.

David (01:26.26)
Wow. You just like to jump straight in, don't you? well this one of course I you know, there's such a revolution going on right now with everything that we're experiencing around A AI and and just kind of where where is it all gonna take us. And just from what I see and ca some of the experiments that we have had as of late, you know, if I had a a a magic wand,

You know, first of all, I I think what I would want to do would probably just deliver a heavier blow to a lot of chief people officers and and a lot of talent functions, HR functions. And so I would, as you said, I would pro I would work to to use AI to automate the the kind of the human out of the the core HR operations and strip down a lot of the administrative burden and

and heaviness and kind of shrink shrink it down or redesign the whole function you know into more of a of a very specialized and kind of elite profile and kind of the thinking there is is this performance architect profile. and so we've you know if you think about you know kind of the the history of of this function and the value of it, a lot of it has been you know kind of stuck in manual

compliance and and and lots of tracking and and sometimes tracking outside of systems and polic policing and and really just a lot of administrative fatigue and so it has become slow it's become bureaucratic and and and and sometimes non-strategic and so my magic wand, would it would completely outsource excuse me all of the data the tracking the operational plumbing.

and then these algorithms, you know, would ultimately be used and and they're being used, you know, right now to help track performance curves, you know, mapping you know, skill gaps, predicting attrition, optimizing compensation distribution, you know, and so it's really it's all about letting letting the machines handle the cold analytics. And so, you know, so all of that to have said is you don't

David (03:50.58)
lose the humanity you're you're you're elevating it and so the the HR professional of the future you know isn't a a paper pusher or a corporate therapist they're they're this you know performance architect and and what that means is that you know they're individuals who are being trained as like these extreme executive coaches, these these experts in

conflict resolution, highly skilled and systemic influence and and s and systems thinking. And so when AI hands you you know, you know, predictive, you know, kind of high velocity, you know, data insights, you know, you don't need just any profile to, you know, to file it, to store it, you know, to report it out. You need strategic truth tellers, you know, who can walk into the C-suite, you know,

l look at the CEO in the eye and and then use high level human judgment and and and also intuition, gut intuition, to influence behavioral change and and then realign that leadership team and the company you know for for stronger execution. And so you know we're we we move away from making you know HR you know nicer or kinder and start making it faster, sharper and and more intuitive. And so

allowing the A the AI systems to manage you know, kind of the you know the the you know the kind of the SOAR or excuse me the core systems processing, analyzing, reporting, you know, so that then our highly skill you know skilled human beings can manage the power, the politics, the performance. So that's that's kind of how I'm thinking of it. And and it's starting to happen. I just feel like it's gonna be

exponential with every month and and I can just see us going to that state.

Daria Rudnik (05:50.856)
I mean you're basically saying that like we leave our human like the core, the human skills to humans and we automate all the rest. We don't want to scale noise with AI. We don't want to create more spreadsheets with cloud cowork. We want it to be handled by AI and leaving human judgment to humans.

David (06:12.993)
Yeah, I mean it's it's and I don't say any of that without you know, a lack of empathy. I mean I I just it it's where, you know, the technology is there, right? And so let's use it. Let's be super smart about it, and then let's redesign and kind of redeploy you know, and upskill you know, how we do things in our functions so that we continue to impact the business you know, and and bring you know, that, you know.

That unbelievable value for them.

Daria Rudnik (06:44.935)
It actually we have this we hear this like thing and this idea of the importance of redesigning the workflows. We're not just putting AI on top of the existing flows, cause otherwise we'll just scale in the noise, scaling the chaos. But we're redesigning it to automate the administrative stuff and and leave humans decision decisions human judgment to humans. Well how did you come up to that? Okay, tell us about your path and

I'm really curious to learn like what's advertising mindset has to do with HR.

David (07:18.975)
Yeah, yeah, as we spoke, you know, previously, I had a you know somewhat of a non-conventional entrance into into this function. And you know, so I started off in advertising and and I was working on all different kinds of brands from some of the Coca-Cola brands and Bud Light and some Procter brands and

And what I learned during all that time is you know advertising teaches you one fundamental truth. And and that and that is that if you don't understand human behavior, you know, kind of motivation and and what drives action, then your campaigns fail. And and I was on you know the winning end of campaigns and also the losing end of campaigns and and always kind of that after action you know review you know,

Where where the difference was, was, you know, how well did we understand, you know, and be able to kind of predict you know human behavior you know, for you know for any one product and and and kind of where the market was also going to go, but where people's heads and wants and motivations were gonna go. so while I was still in advertising, I one day I went to this really funky creativity conference called CPSI

the Creative Problem Solving Institute and and it continues to you know to go on. And it was there that I had you know, the single biggest you know, aha of my life. And, you know, I had, you know, this kind of you know, at the very end of a very long, you know, intense week, I was you know, watching all these people have these ahas and like, my gosh, you know, this is what I learned. And and I was like, God, you know, it was really pretty cool. And I l I had a lot of fun. I'm like, but

I don't get it. Like I haven't. So I'm sitting there talking with this gentleman and and and all of a sudden during this conversation, I had like this little voice in my head, you know, say, like, you know, you know, people are your brands, dummy. And and and I was like, whoa, what what is that all about? And so it was so powerful for me that you know, like at first I didn't understand it, but then it hit me and I realized that I didn't I didn't want to sell

David (09:41.634)
you know, more gas, you know, or beer or consumer products. And what I wanted to do most of is to help people, you know, better their own brands. And so I just that was so strong for me that I literally went back. I was living in San Antonio, Texas at the time. So I literally went back that next week and and I because I had heard of this you know master's degree program associated with this conference.

Daria Rudnik (09:45.844)
Okay.

David (10:12.189)
And so I quit my job. And so I literally moved from the hottest place on earth in San Antonio, Texas, to the coldest at you know, Buffalo, New York. And and so I started down, you know, I started down this master's degree and and all of this was prior to that whole brand you phenomenon. And so during my studies, I had developed this this project, you know, called brand mean.

Daria Rudnik (10:19.256)
Ha ha

David (10:40.701)
And it was an entire arsenal of of assessments and questions and processes designed to help someone reinvent themselves and like and and pull them forward to their best and and highest self. And and so this initial aha and and set of ideas set me on this trajectory that that you know took me to the Center for Creative Leadership, you know, which is a you know a leadership you know, consultancy. and

And and so kind of you know all of this, you know, kind of just kept me thinking about like well well how how do we architect an an an ecosystem like in inside of a company that motivates a human being to perform, you know, at their at their highest level. And so I just I had this you know, newfound of fascination with helping people and their brands and and and of course you know, that that took me to my first coaching certification way, way back. and

And so so that was kind of that was kind of the shift for me in into this whole career path that I've been on for, you know, for many years now.

Daria Rudnik (11:52.0)
That's that's exciting. And I I can relate to this brand me idea that and especially again with AI, AI can do lots of things. AI can do lots of kind of technical things. And if you can use AI, it's not a differentiator anymore. But what is your differentiator? Like what is the core human interpersonal organizational skill that you have that? So like yeah, I think we are all brands in this AI a era.

David (12:20.257)
Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I mean I think the you know the kind of the core you know, differentiator and and the the the technology is is moving so fast you know, right now. So for many you know, as it relates just to like say executive coaching, many executive coaches, you know, have you know they they'll use you know AI you know to help you know organize the story, pull the data together, you know, build out the reports and and that's amazing because it really it

really does help you to you know to fine tune you know your your your thinking you know make sure that the language is all clear or correct but you know as it relates to you know the differentiator it it really is that higher order you know kind of thinking the judgment, you know ai can't read body language and it can't like you know there are things that you learn over time right that that you just say well okay well this this person keeps you know rubbing their neck and they look

Daria Rudnik (13:10.229)
Yet, yet.

David (13:18.721)
you know, uncomfortable or whatever the case might be and you pick up on those things, right? And and and then you also have context, right? You know, probably from a previous conversation or multiple previous conversations that you've had. So these are things that, you know, that are not at least today, you know, replaceable.

Daria Rudnik (13:37.375)
Yeah, yeah, it's true. Well let's talk about your work at Snowflake. Many organizations grow accidentally. Things happening, the process here, process there, nothing there. When you joined the Snowflake, what did you do? How did you create it order and and what was there actually?

David (13:57.73)
Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah, so when I joined Snowflake was just coming out, you know, was just kind of coming out of this, you know, this hypergrowth. And and so I was there you know, hired to build out the the performance architecture. And so when I got there, we we realized that there were data was scattered all across the company, there were multiple

you know, performance scales, that there were inconsistent processes, there were it was just it was like an untended garden. It was where you're just itching to get in there and get out your clippers and and start you know doing some cleanup. And so so that was the task and and I and and I, you know, myself I love that kind of work. and so we we started by saying, okay, let's let's

let's do this cleanup and let's address the fragmentation that we were seeing. And so we needed to move from what was you know very decentralized, you know, subjective, you know, siloed, you know, business decisions you know, to smart, you know, enterprise-wide data-driven you know, insights. And so this is when we established our performance excellence architecture and and framework. And so you know we we first started with

you know, with our ethos and just to say, well, what where do we start? And so this ethos is all about delivering results in the right way, you know, where we are equally looking at you know, both, you know, the what you know, and the how. And and and I'll say more about that in just a moment. And then and then next came you know the design principles. We call them our our North stars. And we have four of them. And not necessarily in in in order.

that the you know the first one up you know, is all around clarity and and it's somewhat of a multi-directional clarity because you know, it's it's knowing that our employees have you know, the right to know what's expected of them and then also, you know, what to expect, right? What to expect of their their people leader, you know, of leadership, of the company. And so clarity, you know, really kind of, you know, sits you know, in the middle of of absolutely everything that we do.

David (16:21.995)
The the next star North Star is all around accountability. And accountability you know, we we designed, you know, the process with high performance in mind. And so we we set a high bar and and in everything that we have built out, ensuring that we're finding ways to be able to hold ourselves accountable, hold our people leaders accountable to the process and to being you know, just performance pros and and just being really good inside of this process.

the next one is around advancement. And so if we're challenging people and finding ways to you know, kind of making sure that their that their performance is measured and people are understanding it. But you know, you know, kind of the flip side of that is ensuring that we're building out all of the opportunities excuse me, for them to learn, for them to grow, you know, ensuring that that they're seeing their ability to advance at a inside of the company. And then finally is around rewards and really making sure that

Performance is linked to our rewards and ensuring that we are a pay-for-performance culture and that we're differentiating for impact. And then finally, we needed a performance scale, right? How do we know? And we started by introducing a unified five-point look back scale

that includes you know both the what and the how. And the cool thing about this is that this was somewhat of an experiment, and we piloted it at first. A lot of companies you know will say that the how is important, right? But when you actually get down to the measurement, it's really much more about the what. And so we have we have the how embedded in in the calculation of the rating you know, to where you know you're you're answering you know a question around results, around.

what and then we have two questions around the how. And then there's a calculated weighted rating that you get at the conclusion of answering those questions. And so, you know, this is really designed to, you know, to ensure that every single employee, regardless of the function that they're in, you know, is evaluated fairly and consistency because it helps to strip out a a lot of the bias. So that was those those were kind of like the, you know, the the building blocks.

Daria Rudnik (18:42.699)
Mm.

Daria Rudnik (18:47.371)
Cool. And I hear like it's sort of a like three it's a hierarchy. I mean, you have a vision, you understand what you're aiming for. You there's a performance-driven, performance-rewarded coun culture, and then you have a framework, like what your North stars, and then you have the tools and kind of moving top down is what helps you create those. So for anyone who's listening to that, like take this. Your your North Star and your kind of elements might be different inside, but again, it starts from the vision, then the kind the framework and the how.

Is only the third step. And I know many of our listeners are are going through that kind of challenge at a different scale. But at some point they come to your company and see, okay, there's so many things happening, but we need more structure and we can do this. And like having this garden, let's do something. But there's so much to do. How did you understand where to start?

David (19:40.098)
Yeah, I think in the work that we do, oftentimes we have you know, little little time and and little resources. And and I feel like you know, getting super surgical is is really important. And and I think, you know, let let the employees tell you. And so I'm always guided by you know our our annual, you know, you know, and and poll survey data. And so let employees tell you you know, you know.

of you know where to begin because if you if you see that data set you're understanding you know the nature and the state of of the organization's health and so in this case we we knew that from you know from the previous year that that employees were very much wanting to you know to understand how their measure was being or how their performance was being measured it was a little bit too ambiguous for them and that came through

loud and clear in the data set. And and of course they also, you know, were looking for you know, more guidance and help on how to advance their career. So all of that data was so important that it ultimately became an a a company OKR. And so we spent an entire year really piloting you know, experimenting, building and and evolving it you know, to what it is today.

Daria Rudnik (21:01.375)
Mm-hmm. The other challenge I hear a lot is that especially companies just been startup, moving, kind of growing, scaling, and there is a feeling that something needs to be changed. But like the leadership say, we don't we want to keep this startup vibe, we want to keep this startup culture. If we introduce a lot of processes, will it'll it'll slow us down. How do you make sure that

leaders are involved in this process. How do you communicate this with the leadership team?

David (21:35.97)
Yeah. Well, I think to your your first point, you know, I I'm super sensitive to you know how much infrastructure we overlay into the company. You know, when I came first to Snowflake, I looked around and I thought, wow, this company has been super successful without a lot of infrastructure. There there wasn't there wasn't a ton of people like operations infrastructure. And of course that has been built out.

but because of that, I thought, well, wait a second, let's let's let's slow down and let's make sure that we're super methodical and and thoughtful about what we do introduce. And so, you know, what is introduced you know by way of of of thinking and systems and processes, you know, always is is a tight partnership you know, with our executive team and and helping them to understand you know, the value you know, of

of any one thing. you know, f you know, so for performance specifically you know, the data was so clear. And and I think leading with data is is absolutely the best way to go. I think most executives really want to see it. They they need to be able to see that data. And we were able to show the case just to say, here's what it will buy us, right? Here's what it will buy us you know, by way of employee engagement, by way of attrition, by way of

you know, qu you know, quality you know, inside of the company, overall. And so that's kind of where we started. Now we had a starting point and we started, but it really evolved over time. And it evolved you know, because of that partnership with our with our executive team. And so we, you know, we started off with one thing and then it it has significantly shifted you know, over the many months that followed. and that was really you know.

being able to kind of have a design principle in the beginning just to say you know, don't be afraid of of iterating on this, right? We we created this and but we know it's gonna take a little bit of time to get us to the sweet spot, you know, of who we are today, you know, the kind of culture that we wanna be. and so I think that, you know, that kind of constant iteration is important inside of a company.

Daria Rudnik (23:56.916)
And I remember you also mentioned something about like saving the time. Like because when you have a clear process, when you have this clarity, it actually saves time to understand what's the next step, what should I do?

David (24:09.91)
Yeah, yeah. I mean I think the you know part of what we one of the you know significant changes that you know that we made is is that we had to you know you know dial back the processes, you know, where we started off with a quarterly cadence of performance. And and that was just a little bit too much. And we realized that that was you know creating more administrative burden

than we had ex you know anticipated for our people leaders, right? We're you know, because the burden falls on them. And so we we stripped that away initially, and then we realized that we inadvertently had created a coverage gap, and a coverage gap by way of you know just realizing that mana you know that our people leaders didn't have like a structured touch point, you know, and and also we knew that from the employee voice

survey data that that we had to do you know a better job at career conversations, you know, coaching and and being able to really help our our employees feel like you know they're seeing tangible evidence of them being able to advance their careers. And so we what we did then is is that in our two off quarters we we created focus quarters and where we were able to introduce you know kind of a lightweight,

you know, kind of performance trend indicator touch point that really kind of serves as a coaching compass, you know, that says you know, this person is tracking ahead, they're on track, they're off track. And depending on kind of you know, the assessment of that, it really helps to turn you know, that assessment into a powerful coaching conversation and and just that more meaningful you know, career space and conversation with that individual. So so I think

You know, we're always conscious of administrative burden, how much time certain things you know, take for our people leaders because we're always paying attention to organizational noise. There's a lot of it, and we want to make sure that we're not contributing to that noise.

Daria Rudnik (26:21.791)
You know what I'm hearing what you say, you say a lot about coaching, like leaders is coaching, giving them tools to have those kind of coaching conversations. HR coaches going to see you and asking questions and kind of telling them when they are what's what's really happening out there. You know what I'm curious about yeah, go ahead. No, no, I have a question. Like I I'm curious

David (26:39.49)
Yeah. No, no, no, go ahead. You for No no.

Daria Rudnik (26:45.501)
I'm curious, like Snowflake is a is a it's a big company. It's a big company, has resources, has data. Like smaller companies don't have that much data. Any advice like to HR leaders for like of s smaller companies, how they can again speak, make those data-driven decisions, sort of, when there is not so much information out there.

David (27:12.472)
Yeah. Well, I mean, I, you know, as as I mentioned, I mean, I think that we and Snowflake does, you know, w I think we're on the cutting edge of you know, all things AI right now. I, you know, I think that, you know, the best place to start is is finding a way to be able to at least have you know, a data set you know, where you have a, you know, robust set you know, of questions that are that are relevant for your own company. And you know, that's really akin to an an employee engagement.

survey where you are pressure checking you know the health of the organization you're you're looking at you know leadership and and how are people leaders doing and and how do employees feel you know about the vision, the mission, the strategy of the company, are they engaged? Or so that one data set is not overly complicated and that is available you know to you know to all startups and and that is the place to start.

You know, but the key there is to be able to to you know ask you know, for the data, you know, and and if and if employees you know, listen and they tell you, then it's really you know, doing a good job at the follow-up, right? And making sure that you you turn that data you know into action and that you're communicating to say, okay, here's what we heard, here's what we're gonna do about it, and then you know, on a quarterly basis coming back, say here's here's how we're tracking against progress. Because

That data set is so important, you you wanna make sure that you're building trust all along the way, that if employees are gonna take the time you know, to tell you what's going on and to be truthful about that, you know, that we come back and and we're good partners for them on that journey.

Daria Rudnik (28:55.775)
What I'm hearing you saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, so i if you don't have much resources and you cannot track all the data, all the information that's out there, just find something that's the most critical, whether it's employee engagement or attrition rate or I don't know, sales performance, whatever it is, something that you can measure, that you can track, do something about it, influence it, and then like see the change and and follow up.

David (29:20.066)
That's right. That's right. Yeah. I mean, back, you know, before AI, you know, just you know, like in smaller companies, you know, for example, if you have a a 50 person startup, you know, you can you know, interview, you know, say the leadership team and kind of see what they think about the company. They think about themselves, they think about the CEO. Okay, great, that's a that's a you know, that's a data set, and that's not a lot of people.

And then maybe you have you then you maybe you interview you know the people leaders. And let's just say that there's you know 15 of them, right? That's not a big data set. But guess what? Now, you know, Daddy, I don't know if you have been interviewed by, you know, by you know, by AI, but there are a lot of tools now where you can get very you know fast data back by allowing these interviews to be handled handled by AI. And

And the the technology is mind blowing, right? You you you get interviewed and then you have the the AI, you know, personality or bot or whatever you want to call them, you know, play it back to you and just to say, wow, David, okay, this is what I understand about what you said. And you're like, my gosh, that's way better than than what than than what I said, right? Okay, let's keep that take.

So so that data today for any startup is available and and it is at a much lower cost point and and there's just there's a a lot of options you know, for s you know, startups now in that space.

Daria Rudnik (30:52.415)
So what I mean, there's no excuses for ignoring data driven decision making and being a true business partner to business. Use AI. There's I mean, and again, AI is really I mean critical for smaller companies because it's easy for them to implement that. It's easy to try it out and then drop it. I mean, you don't have those huge corporate policies.

David (30:57.666)
That's right.

David (31:14.05)
That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I I I have tested it you know, enough and really liking you know, you know, what it's capable of and and always you know, you you can finesse it, right? And you're you're the end judge you know, of of the output and and how it's curated and the story that you want to tell back, you know, to the company or to executives.

Daria Rudnik (31:38.133)
Well, thank you so much, David. It's an incredible conversation. Any last message, final message to our listeners?

David (31:46.553)
Gosh, well, I mean, just thank you you know, Daria to you and just an honor to be here on your show. And and I, you know, I think really we are just in and everyone's feeling it. You know, I I think that there is a there's a constant stress and and anxiety you know, for all of us of am I doing enough? Am I learning fast enough? Am I keeping up most days? You know, I feel behind and thinking, gosh, you know, we're

Where's the world gonna go just in the next two months and six months and year from now? And so I really, you know, I think it's it's being able to keep up you know, with all of the advances and what's coming forward you know, and doing that you know, without burning ourselves out or or stressing ourselves out. So so it's about getting curious and and and making sure that we're we're we're learning in this process.

Daria Rudnik (32:36.469)
Yeah.

Daria Rudnik (32:42.131)
It's true. It's true. It's for like I like that you focus on learning rather than just trying to keep up with the with the speed because speed is like immense. Like change is so high. But if we're curious, if we're learning, if you ask questions, try things, yeah, we can do that. We we can manage that. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for having this conversation with us to your listeners. Thanks for listening till the end. If you like this episode, please give us five stars on Apple Podcast or Spotify. Subscribe to our YouTube channel.

David (32:57.878)
That's right.

Daria Rudnik (33:09.257)
And stay tuned for the next episodes. Bye.

David (33:12.751)
Thank you.