(00:00-00:01) Robbie Samuels
Oh, hello everyone.

(00:02-00:31) Robbie Samuels
Welcome back. Welcome back. Got a great panel for you today. You know, we're getting close. Next week is the Kindle flash sale and it's going to be April 20th through 23rd. And I'm going to be talking to lots of authors next week as well during that campaign. But these episodes get recorded, the ones I'm doing today, and are available at BizBook Pubhub as part of the archived episodes for the podcast. So definitely tune into this one. And if you miss it, you can always check out the listening episode later on.

(00:31-00:51) Robbie Samuels
Without any further delay, let me introduce this week's episode. You're thinking about writing a book. You've got an idea, a message you care about, and a sense that becoming an author will elevate your credibility. But here's a question worth asking before you start writing. Will this book actually create opportunities for your business?

(00:51-01:13) Robbie Samuels
Many speakers and coaches assume that simply having a book will be enough, that it will attract clients and lead to speaking engagements. But without a clear strategy behind it, a book can easily become a lot of effort with very little return. Before you write, it's important to step back and ask a few key questions. Who is this book really for? By the way, the answer can't be everyone.

(01:13-01:41) Robbie Samuels
What problem does it solve? Does the reader even know they have this problem? How does the book connect to your other offers? And maybe it's time to rename those offers to make connections more obvious. And what do you want a reader to do after they finish with your book? If they love your book, how can they find you? And what can they do with you next? Those are exactly the kinds of questions we explore in the Author ROI Lab, a small group program designed to help entrepreneurs

(01:41-01:56) Robbie Samuels
Decide whether the book they're considering is worth writing and how to leverage it for real business results. To learn more, you can visit booklaunchbrainstorm.com. And now it's my pleasure to introduce you to today's panelists. With me today, we have Amy Clymer who wrote,

(01:56-02:25) Robbie Samuels
Deliberate Creative Teams, How to Lead for Innovative Results, a practical leadership guide that helps teams build the skills, mindset, and structures needed to consistently generate innovative ideas and turn them into meaningful results. We also have Daria Rudnick, who wrote Clicking, a team-building strategy for overloaded leaders who want stronger team trust, better results, and more time. A results-driven framework that shows leaders how to strengthen trust,

(02:25-02:52) Robbie Samuels
improve collaboration, and create more efficient, high-performing teams without adding more to their plate. And Tissa Richards, who is the author of two books, including Rethinking Resilience, Fueling Your Competitive Advantage, a strategic guide that challenges traditional views of resilience and shows leaders how to leverage it as a powerful driver of performance, adaptability, and long-term success. Please join me in welcoming Amy, Daria, and Tissa. Amy, I'm going to kick things off with you.

(02:52-03:17) Amy Climer
I want to get a little better sense from each of you who you wrote your book for, who was the intended audience. So welcome, Amy. Thank you, Robbie. Yeah, so I wrote the book Deliberate Creative Teams for leaders who want their teams to be more innovative, but maybe they're not quite sure where to start. And the book goes through a process that leaders and teams could follow to be more innovative and really to innovate on demand.

(03:18-03:38) Robbie Samuels
It's so interesting because most people don't think of that as something you can teach. Creativity seems like a thing people innately have. I love that you break it down into something that people can realize for themselves. Is there a particular subset of an audience that you have? Are there certain industries or level of an organization that seems to be a better fit that you're drawn to working with?

(03:38-03:53) Amy Climer
Yeah, I mostly end up working with either executive or leadership teams or maybe mid-level managers. Sometimes I have worked across the entire organization. Actually, that's happened this year where I trained 1,000 employees in one organization.

(03:53-04:18) Amy Climer
But yeah, mostly the book is written for the upper level leader and across industries. Like I've worked with healthcare, manufacturing, government, entertainment industries. Like it's just all over the place because innovation is kind of needed anywhere. It is needed anywhere, but not everyone knows it. So that's great that you're bridging that. Daria, tell us a little bit about the book you wrote and who it was for.

(04:20-04:36) Daria Rudnik
Well, I wrote the book Clicking, and it's the book for, as it says in the title, it's a book for overloaded leaders who want better results, stronger team trust, and more time. Because so many leaders are overloaded right now with multiple demands, things happening in the world, and especially...

(04:36-05:01) Daria Rudnik
Especially leaders in fast-growing companies and scale-ups and tech companies who face lots of disruptions, including AI entering workplace. That is a huge, huge influence on how we work together. So I can tell you what my book is not for. It's not for people who want to read a book and get inspired and do nothing about it because it is very practical. It is about do something. Here is what to do.

(05:01-05:12) Robbie Samuels
I wrote those kind of books as well. That's great. Tissa, let me bring you into the conversation. You've got a couple of books up your sleeve, but you want to share who the audience is for them?

(05:12-05:31) Tissa Richards
Yeah, so the one, you know, particularly Rethinking Resilience, which is my most recent book, is really designed. It's interesting that you put us together today, Robbie, because it's really, you know, it touches how you innovate, how you manage your energy. But really, I think it was just the time was...

(05:31-06:01) Tissa Richards
I think very, very appropriate to talk about that our definition of resilience to me was very broken. We just tell people, okay, wait till something bad happens and then figure out how to scramble and bounce back and recover. And I think that puts us into survival mode. And as we know, disruption and uncertainty are just, that is going to be the forever model that we live in. And it doesn't take into account opportunity and innovation. And I think you need resilience as a muscle for those. So I just thought,

(06:01-06:15) Tissa Richards
I'm going to take the contrary position and say the old definition of resilience is broken. It makes us feel broken. And if we can rethink it completely, we will have a huge competitive advantage in our lives and at work. And so I wrote it for...

(06:16-06:36) Tissa Richards
primarily senior leaders and their teams. But what's really interesting is a lot of people, you know, when you do book signings or people come back and they say, I've also thought about how I can apply this in my life, which is to your point, you can't write a book for everybody for all the things, but it's really interesting when people tell you that they found a vein that applies in a place that you didn't expect. So that's, that's really cool.

(06:37-07:02) Robbie Samuels
Yeah, it absolutely happens. I think the best books are the ones that are written with a particular audience in mind, but the stories can still connect with other like adjacent audiences or, you know, it doesn't take gymnastics for them to imagine themselves in it. The worst is when no one feels it directly affects them. And then everyone has to mentally do gymnastics to see, is this book for me? Like that's where the for everyone model really falls.

(07:02-07:23) Robbie Samuels
But I also think it's so funny, and Tissa, I think you're pointing this out. You three are here not because of my grand wizardry. I'd love to take credit. This is the times you chose. But it happens a lot that there's this, like, obviously the kind of people we attract to the Kindle Flash Sale, which is how we're here, because as one of the benefits of signing up for the Kindle Flash Sale,

(07:23-07:53) Robbie Samuels
is to join one of the author panels. And we're attracting entrepreneurial authors, many of whom are writing for the corporate workspace, workplace, leadership kind of angle. Tissa, I know you've written two books. Amy, this is your first book. And Daria, this is also your first book. Okay, Daria, I'm going to come over to you for a second here. I'm curious about that inner voice when you're going to write a book. I mean, congratulations. You're on the other side of that. But

(07:53-08:05) Robbie Samuels
Did you know other authors where you're surrounded by people who were telling you that a book was a good idea? How did you how did you move from like, I have something in my head to I have something in my hands I can give to other people?

(08:06-08:33) Daria Rudnik
Well, to be honest, yes. I had a role model, like a friend who wrote a book. I mean, my native language is Russian. His native language is Russian. He wrote a book in English. I said, wow, I would never be able to do that. Well, I did that. And I also met, like, while writing a book, I also was talking to lots of authors and kind of asking myself the same questions. Who is this book for? How would it help with my business? How would people reach out to me when they read the book?

(08:33-08:43) Daria Rudnik
How would it help them? How would it help me? So kind of that was really helpful talking to other people and other authors before publishing my book. And how long ago did it come out?

(08:45-09:14) Daria Rudnik
Well, the first idea was in 2020. I started writing the book, didn't finish it, throw it all away. Then it was 2022, didn't finish it, throw it all away. And then in 2024, I started writing the book because I had clarity on who's my audience, what I want to tell them, what do I want them to do after they read the book. And I finished it. And in August, 2025, I published it. Okay. There's so many reasons to congratulate you for not publishing in 2020.

(09:15-09:42) Robbie Samuels
Just by the way you described it, you didn't really know. A lot of people rush forward because they think having a book in their hand is the point. And you taking the time over four years to really get that clarity, work out who the book is for, figure out all the processes. What was the most surprising part of writing the book? Did you learn something about your own process? Did you discover a framework that you had always had but didn't name? Yeah.

(09:42-09:45) Robbie Samuels
Like a lot of times we learn something either about our business or ourselves in the process of writing a book.

(09:46-10:12) Daria Rudnik
I actually worked with a developmental editor, and she was an amazing help. Anyone who's writing a book, it's worth having someone asking you those questions. Because she was telling me, why are you writing this? Like, what would that give your audience? Why are you naming this exercise some random name? Give it your name, something that people will remember.

(10:12-10:32) Daria Rudnik
And the thing that she told me, you're good at descriptional writing. So, I mean, something that people can actually use. And I knew that that's exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to write something that people can read and go and try it out and do something with it, not just be inspired by it.

(10:33-11:02) Robbie Samuels
Okay, so brilliant. I'm going to give a shout out to the idea of a developmental editor or writing coach, having someone who can help you, even a mentor, having a coach, somebody who can help you stay true to the ongoing vision for a book, because I think we get a little lost in the weeds. Amy, I didn't ask you that question to start with, because you and I met through the National Speakers Association, and there is a drumbeat, a steady drumbeat in that organization. Write a book, write a book, write a book.

(11:02-11:25) Robbie Samuels
So, of course, we're going to write a book, but you didn't rush to write this book. You you've created a lot of content. You're well known for the work that you do. So what was the tipping point from you were already established in your work as a speaker? You already had all this other creative outlets. What was the oh, a book makes sense for the next step in my work?

(11:26-11:54) Amy Climer
I think there's a couple of different drivers for me. One of them was I had been wanting to write this book since probably 2016, 2015. And I was dragging my feet, you know, life gets in the way, work, whatever. And then as time passed, more and more clients and colleagues were saying, oh, you know, I'd have a conversation with them and they would say, oh, what's the name of your book? I want to check it out. I'm like, I don't have a book. Yeah.

(11:54-12:15) Amy Climer
It's like, oh, OK, like I'm hearing this message over and over. So it got louder and louder. And yeah, eventually I did find a coach that was incredibly helpful. And that was probably the real catalyst that got me from just being in my head or randomly trying to start and then actually getting serious and making it happen.

(12:16-12:46) Robbie Samuels
yeah i mean this is one of the reasons that i was excited to start building a few years ago bizbook pubhub because one of the pieces is a curated directory of experts who guide entrepreneur authors sort of along that journey and the screening process for deciding who to be in that directory was they had to understand and have experience working with folks like you and i who have businesses because it's a different reason to write a book like anyone could write a book i do believe the whole like

(12:46-13:10) Robbie Samuels
Everyone's got a book in them, but I don't believe everyone right this second has a book in them that will benefit their business. And I think you need someone else to hold you to account and think through what are all those next steps. I mean, that was sort of my introduction here because I've seen it over and over again. I've had people meet with me when the book is in the formatting phase to talk about a launch process, and they can't for 12 minutes tell me who the book is for.

(13:10-13:27) Robbie Samuels
And I'm like, oh, boy, that's really rough. Let's work backwards here. It's a lot harder to do. Amy, what was your surprise aha from the writing part? Was there something you learned about yourself or your work that wasn't the reason you started writing or something came up in the process of it?

(13:28-13:43) Amy Climer
I definitely learned a lot about just what I need in my writing process. And I've written before, not a book per se, but I wrote a dissertation, which is kind of like a book. I mean, the dissertation led to the book.

(13:43-14:12) Amy Climer
So I had this writing coach and we had these sprints where you literally could get on a Zoom call four times a day and join a group of other people for a little sprint where you just say hi, mute yourself and write for an hour. And that was really motivating for me. But one of the things that I had in my head is that when I write, I need like a big chunk of time. I need a full day to just totally dive in.

(14:12-14:39) Amy Climer
And because of these sprints, you know, you show up and it's basically by the time you say, hi, it's 50 minutes and I'd get a lot done in 50 minutes. And I learned, oh, okay, this is, I don't always need these big chunks of time. You know, sometimes that's nice, but those are luxuries that are hard to find. And so it made me realize like, oh, I can write this book alongside the other work that I'm doing. So that was a bit of an aha about the process for me.

(14:39-15:09) Robbie Samuels
I just had the opportunity to hear Allie Pleiter present about her chunky method at an NSA National Superior Association Philadelphia chapter meeting. And her, like, I think her message, the biggest takeaway was some people naturally write in small chunks, which is maybe 600 words at a time before they have to get up and do something else. Some people can write for 2,000, 2,500 words. And some people want to be sequestered in a cabin in the woods. And that sounds wonderful. And for some of us like me, that sounds awful. Like it sounds like,

(15:09-15:27) Robbie Samuels
No way. And and like some of us write in in loud cafes and some of us need absolute silence. And so there's not like a right or wrong. But once you understand this about yourself, you can you can find a rhythm. And she pointed out that there are these like people who like to write in these big silent chunks.

(15:27-15:51) Robbie Samuels
had a really hard time during the pandemic because their desk was the dining room table with everybody else in the house home. And yeah, so it's not always the opportune moments, but I love that you sort of found that you could do it alongside because that's the hard part. I mean, I think whenever I write a book, like six months of that year, I'm not making as much money. I'm not doing the same kind of outbound effort.

(15:51-16:11) Robbie Samuels
um because reality is like the book takes over tissa you've managed to do this twice um and i got to work with you in the launch of your second book um you know was there a lesson learned from one book to the other about either how you're approaching the writing or what you thought were the goals for the book or you know etc like the learning that you would take from it

(16:11-16:30) Tissa Richards
Oh, yeah, 100%. And you and I have talked about this. I mean, with the first book, I wrote it kind of similar probably to you, Amy, which was, you know, whenever I spoke, people would say, if you have a book, we'll buy it. And I thought, oh, maybe I should have a book. But also, I think I was saying, I found myself saying the same thing over and over and over. And I thought...

(16:30-16:56) Tissa Richards
maybe that's a sign that this should go in a book. And, but I just put it out into the world and figured if it exists, people will find it. And I had really no, I had no intentional plan for once it landed in the world. I mean, I gave birth to it and then I just left it and I'll, it became very feral. I'll, I'll confess. It was just, it was just a feral child that would just somehow had to sustain itself. And, um,

(16:56-17:26) Tissa Richards
realized I needed to be much more intentional about the second one, which is why I reached out to Robbie. And I think there were just a few, even small tweaks, right? I mean, you get those little dopamine hits, right? When you see number one in its category or number one, you release it, whatever it is, but they're so ephemeral. And, you know, I think Robbie, you asked the question, like, is that, did that actually sustain or loop back to a business goal of yours? Did that generate revenue? Did it book you a keynote? No, but it felt great for the four minutes that it existed. Um,

(17:26-17:39) Tissa Richards
And so being, I think, really much more intentional about, okay, you finish the writing, you get it out there, you hold it in your grubby little hands, and now what? And I hadn't done the now what with the first one.

(17:40-18:05) Tissa Richards
And being way more intentional with that, with this one. And how is it going to dovetail with the keynote tour that I'm on now and the workshops and the programming and things like that. And I'm in the process of working on the next book. And that is 100% aligned with that. Where am I going to evolve the business and the keynotes and all that towards that? And so, yeah, it was much more intentional. Yeah.

(18:06-18:22) Robbie Samuels
Yeah, I think that a lot of people's first book is a learning book. I want to get more people to have the experience like you're having, Amy, where you like have that intention. And Daria, because you had the developmental editor, I think

(18:22-18:45) Robbie Samuels
A lot of times we don't have the right people around us to ask those questions, because like if you go to someone and say, I have 24 blog posts and I want to turn them into a book and they say, OK, I can have ready for you in a week. Like that's that's a printer. You know what I mean? Like that's not a that's not a publishing expert and they're not going to help you tie it back to your book.

(18:45-19:03) Robbie Samuels
to your book, to your business, or if they're like, this is the model, everyone answers this questionnaire and it's always this format and it's like an absolute about the, you know, they're like, do you know anything about my industry or like what my readers would want? You know, no, but this is what I do. It has to be this, like, I think all those,

(19:03-19:24) Robbie Samuels
I don't know. It makes me a little itchy. And I think it's hard to find the right kind of people, which is why hanging out with other authors, you get a sense of that and you see what works for other people and you think, well, maybe for me and well, did you like working with that person? You get a few different ideas going forward. But I think, you know, when Tissa, you came to me, you had a really clear idea of what you wanted.

(19:24-19:44) Robbie Samuels
to have happen um with your with your book next and that clarity makes my work on the launch like so much easier because i didn't spend 12 minutes with you saying wait but who's the book for i'm sorry wait who look yeah um i won't let people hire me if we can't get to that answer i give them homework and i'm like

(19:44-20:09) Robbie Samuels
on your way come back if you have an answer with me three to six weeks um because i my my results will not be good if they can't find that like next step um i'm curious about something uh with you daria i want to come back to this because we were just talking about how this is original book she just was like so excited to have it be out in the world you know the dopamine hit of hitting number one bestseller number one new release which most people don't know the difference

(20:09-20:31) Robbie Samuels
I'm always cautioning people about this. We can talk about it in a minute. But Daria, what were your original milestones you were hoping for with that book? And did they change as your experience of being an author changed once the book was out in the world? Did you change your mind about what were going to be some important milestones? Or did you do the research ahead of time and meet all of them?

(20:32-20:48) Daria Rudnik
Well, my expectations changed before my book was published, to be honest. After some webinar conversation with you, Robbie, to be honest. When you actually explained what being a bestseller means.

(20:49-21:08) Daria Rudnik
I mean, it's easy. I wanted to be a best-selling author. I'm not. I wanted to get an award. I have an award. But again, it's something, okay, I have it. I can just put it aside, put it on my website. But it's not the main thing. The main thing is actually having conversations with people who read my book.

(21:08-21:37) Daria Rudnik
So that's what I'm focusing on. That's what I'm putting all my efforts to now. I don't care about the number one rating because no one knows that. No one sees that. Just me looking at the Amazon ratings, what's the point? I do care about reviews, but again, so that the more reviews I have, the more people will be able to see that book and buy that book and read the book, and then we can have a meaningful conversation. So my main...

(21:37-21:55) Daria Rudnik
metric is is about how many people told me that i read your book it's a great book and something else after that maybe nothing but again for now since my book is very new it's just i read your book it's a great book i love what you're saying i'm gonna try it out

(21:55-22:15) Robbie Samuels
Yeah, I mean, you and I write these actionable books. So when people take the steps initially on their own, some people can DIY and get a lot, but I think it also makes them better prospects because they realize, wait, this is more than I thought. And they go back to you to talk to you and have that conversation. I think it's so smart. It's the best way to position a book

(22:15-22:41) Robbie Samuels
as a way to educate people about the bigger picture problem, the bigger P problem that they weren't really aware of. And now that they realize that there's like a much bigger solution they have to tackle. And then, oh, wait, there you are to like guide them and support them. And they have already built some trust up and believe in your process. So I love that that you got that shift before everything went live. I have a I will tell you, I have a screenshot I was in front of

(22:42-23:03) Robbie Samuels
Uh, Malcolm Gladwell. Um, and I can't remember who the other person was now. This is tells you how important it was, but I, okay, two really important lead leaders in our fields. And, uh, I grabbed the screenshot. I didn't expect to hit number one in the category because they had the big books and the new books coming out. But when I got it, I grabbed the screenshot. It's, it's rotating on my LinkedIn banner.

(23:03-23:27) Robbie Samuels
But partly because I'm like, it is so ephemeral, right? Like if anyone went now, like like I'm not number one. Do you know what I mean? Like that's that's not how this works. Those those people are, you know, Malcolm Gladwell comes out with a book which then sells copies of his older book. Like, come on, there's no way things like that happen. And that's the thing about hitting number one being your goal. You have no idea what other books are going to be released that week.

(23:27-23:34) Robbie Samuels
Like Malcolm Gladwell, you know, drops another book that's similar to your topic, your week, like forget it.

(23:34-24:03) Tissa Richards
What happened? Well, no. And Robbie, I think this was something that you also maybe pivoted my thinking on a little bit, which is the ephemeral nature of that. I mean, it's exciting, but there's no longevity. But when you have a lot of reviews, for example, you know, Amy, I know you're also a speaker. So let's say let's say there's two or three speakers in consideration for a keynote. Now you're going to go because you're also considering, OK, am I going to order one, two, three thousand books?

(24:03-24:33) Tissa Richards
And there's several hundred reviews. I'm reading them. They're all speaking to the theme of this event or to what my audience is experiencing. And I think that really resonated a lot because I hadn't thought of that. I never thought of the reviews for my first book because I thought, well, of course people will love it. It's great. But to see that and to have that credibility and that context and that long tail there, I think I hadn't thought of that. And that makes a really big difference.

(24:34-24:47) Robbie Samuels
Let's actually talk about your reviews just since we're bringing this up. Okay, so first book, No Permission Needed, Unlock Your Leadership Potential and Eliminate Self-Doubt. What year did that come out? I think 2022.

(24:47-25:11) Robbie Samuels
Okay. So 2022, you got 48 global ratings. That's the one through five stars and 35 customer reviews. And I want to say that's not nothing. To get over 20 reviews means you did make some effort because most people get like seven or eight. I mean, zero effort though. That's the thing. Yeah. They don't try. They don't try it all. And two of those reviews share the same last name as the author. You know, like it's really...

(25:11-25:20) Robbie Samuels
It's not good. But then we go to rethinking resilience, refueling your competitive advantage, which what year did that come out?

(25:20-25:49) Robbie Samuels
That came out October of last year. Okay, so it just came out. You have 146 global ratings, that's like 100 more, and 138 written reviews. So here's the thing, not everyone who goes to the book is going to write something. It's easy to do a campaign to get five stars because they don't have to buy anything and they don't have to write anything. So that is not as meaningful and it doesn't impact the algorithm for your book being discovered on the search results the same way that reviews will have that impact.

(25:49-26:18) Robbie Samuels
So I'm also always curious about the, like, high percentage between the number of people who do write reviews and the number of people who leave a rating. Those are things that show me, like, this was a reviews-driven effort. And so 138 people took the time to write you a review. What were your initial expectations when we started working together? What do you think was possible, given your first book's experience? I'm trying to remember. I think I told you I would be happy if we doubled it, if we got, like, 70 or something. I think that was...

(26:18-26:29) Tissa Richards
I like to under promise and over deliver. 4X is probably fine with you. Totally. So then when it doubled even that, that was really exciting.

(26:30-26:52) Robbie Samuels
And that has everything to do with the author's community because like I just I'm going to come over to Amy's results in a second. But I just did a launch for David Newman's book, Market Eminence. And, you know, first of all, I was surprised he wanted to talk to me about this because he's like a marketing and sales expert. So I felt a little bit like I was teaching the master how to tie his shoes. I was like, what? Why do you need me here?

(26:52-27:12) Robbie Samuels
But, you know, it's different. And also he's got a full business to run. He doesn't want to focus on this. And I have a formula. So we did it and his network was so engaged and he had 225 reviews within like a short few weeks. And now it's probably like 250. But I that's not like I'm not saying like, oh, and you're going to get those results because.

(27:12-27:28) Robbie Samuels
his people responded because the way he had been interacting with them. I have another client who gave me a hundred names and said, I'm going to email my list and we'll get more people just for my list. And he blasted his list of, I don't know how many tens of thousands, three different times and 40 people signed up. Oh, wow.

(27:28-27:47) Robbie Samuels
Yeah, so 60 people came off the list of 100 and 40 people came off the list of tens of thousands. So it's just like the personalization is needed. The engagement is important. So I guess what I want to tell authors who are listening before you even get to the point of launching a book, really think about how you're engaging with your network.

(27:47-28:12) Robbie Samuels
Be the person who shows up, supports, serves, makes introductions, buys other people's books and writes reviews, listens to podcasts and writes reviews. Put as much good mojo out in the world as you can in all kinds of ways, which, Amy, clearly you're doing here because you have 133 global ratings, so huge, and 126 of those people wrote a review, which is a very high percentage.

(28:12-28:21) Robbie Samuels
So Amy, how did you approach this? Why did you even think to focus on the review side of things since it's not usually at the top of people's list?

(28:22-28:48) Amy Climer
I mean, I think I thought about the reviews. I mean, I knew just from listening to you over the years, Robbie, and also being part of National Speakers Association. These are conversations we have within that community. And so it wasn't even a question. Like I didn't even consider not looking or trying to get reviews. And I was actually a part of another, like, so my book came out February, 2025. And a couple of months before that,

(28:48-29:10) Amy Climer
Well, I guess it was the fall before I was part of Jess Pettit's book launch. You know, Jess, also from NSA. And she did something that I really liked and I copied, which was, you know, she built this launch team, which I had already been planning to do. But she then scheduled everybody to write a review on a particular day.

(29:10-29:27) Amy Climer
And it was so effective. Like I had in my head, December 16th, that's the day I have to write the review for Jess. And what happened is I felt this responsibility, like, oh, this is my date. It's like, you know, I'm showing up to a meeting, right?

(29:27-29:45) Amy Climer
But the other thing that happened, and I saw this comparing other book launches that I was a part of, is I wasn't bugging my, you know, she wasn't bugging the list the whole time. Like, hey, if you have a random review, please write a review. You know, and so it was just like, oh, you know, she had on her list, Amy, December 16th. Okay. And

(29:45-30:05) Amy Climer
So I copied that format and it worked really well. And, you know, not everyone on the launch team writes a review. That's just kind of part of the process. Yeah. So my initial goal was to get 100 reviews, which I got, I guess, within a couple of months. I don't remember the exact timing. Yeah.

(30:06-30:27) Robbie Samuels
I will admit then things sort of died down because my energy was pretty zapped. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's also where I think we'll come to the second. I'm going to ask you about the Kindle flash stuff because I do think that's part of an ongoing effort. By the way, I just looked, you and Jess Pettit have the exact number of written reviews. So well done following her formula. That's awesome. Thank you, Jess.

(30:27-30:52) Robbie Samuels
oh that's fantastic um all right but i think like the idea that you felt like you would set an intention and it's your responsibility to follow through and she made that as easy as possible i think that's really smart and and obviously very effective um so cool i love this so uh the kindle flash sale can be a lot of things to a lot of different authors i mean basically you all agreed to lower your kindle book price

(30:52-31:22) Robbie Samuels
for a period of time. And then we're going to all cross promote over four days to our various lists. We have over 50 authors. So that's that's going to be a lot of people that are going to hear about it. And I don't gatekeep. So some people don't have very many people on their list and some people have a lot of people on their list. Like David Newman is part of this flash sale again for just an example of one extreme. So we do this for a few reasons. And I'm curious, Amy, you talked about like at the end of a launch, you're kind of it's like, oh, OK,

(31:22-31:50) Robbie Samuels
I mean, it's a, it's a triathlon. I mean, you got the book written, then you got it published and then, you know, then you got the launch and the marketing and like, then you're finally at the end of the three legs of that long, long race. And you're like, okay, breathe. And then you have to go back to like running a business, which you've been ignoring a little bit. And there's a lot more upkeep to catch up with, but how do you position the Kindle flash sale as part of the way of like moving that, the, I don't know, whatever effort you were planning to do forward.

(31:50-32:14) Amy Climer
I mean, I think for me, for this particular time, so this is my second time being a part of the flash sale. I think the last time I was, I did, it was last April. And so now the book's been out for a little over a year and the timing for this happens to work really well for me. For one, I've been a little bit quiet about the book. And so it's time to talk a bit more about it. But I also recently just the book just won two awards and

(32:14-32:33) Amy Climer
And so I feel like this is an opportunity to really say, hey, look, this is these external people saying that this is a good book. And, you know, here's your chance. Get it for 99 cents. Yeah. So just it feels like just a good way, a good excuse to like re-engage people.

(32:33-33:00) Amy Climer
with my audience and not that I've been completely quiet. Um, but yeah, I, I kind of had to check out a little bit for some medical reasons, the end of 2025. And so I feel like, okay, I'm back. I'm excited. Um, yeah. So I think it's just a good excuse to reach out. And, you know, when I launched my book, I also dropped the price to 99 cents for the couple of days during the launch. And so it's like, Hey, if you missed that, here's your chance, you know?

(33:00-33:09) Robbie Samuels
That's right. Yeah, exactly. It's a season to refocus on it. Daria, how do you think about this Kindle flash sale as part of your ongoing effort

(33:11-33:36) Daria Rudnik
Well, like you all said, the energy is fading. You kind of put a lot of effort into the launch. And then, okay, I'm just tired of it. And doing it together with other offers, helping each other, kind of supporting, giving energy. Okay, let's give it another go. Let's get more reviews. Let's reach out to more people. Let's reconnect with people who would benefit from that book. So, yeah.

(33:36-34:01) Daria Rudnik
Did you have a launch team or group of people initially when the book came out? I did have a launch team. So who didn't? Are there some people on that list? And that's what I'm thinking about. Okay, go for it. I want to hear about this. Yeah, people who did. And I love, Amy, what you said. I mean, I love the team. Oh, it's such a good idea. I wish I heard that before. Yeah. But I do want to reach out to people who didn't have a chance to write their review because they're busy or something they forgot. So, yeah.

(34:02-34:19) Robbie Samuels
I just, I have a team member who helps me track reviews for all my launch clients. And I said, I have a little side project. Can you go in and update all of my launch teams? Because I have four books and some people have been on multiple teams and I don't want to send four emails out to them.

(34:19-34:42) Robbie Samuels
Being like, hey, like, by the way, this book. So I now have a big project to undertake because he just updated all of those. And so I want to be like, hey, you signed up for these books. You wrote this review, but I haven't seen one for this book. Like it's in this campaign. I'm like, I made myself this huge project, but I'm excited because these people really did set the intention. And my wife just finally, she wanted me to share this actually.

(34:44-34:59) Robbie Samuels
I'm talking about reviews all the time, late last year. And she kept saying like, oh, and I told that person I was gonna write a review. So a friend of ours that we don't see very often from like town we used to live in, wrote a book and my wife said, yeah, I'll write a review for you. Cause she sort of casually asked, well, the woman never followed up.

(34:59-35:29) Robbie Samuels
Never, ever followed up. There wasn't a launch team. And my wife, it's been weighing on her this whole time. I would talk about launches and she'd go, oh, right. She finally did it. And then she told the woman like three weeks later because the woman didn't even notice because, of course, the woman hadn't been checking her reviews. She only had six reviews. My wife was the seventh. So it was an example of my wife thinking she had this great responsibility and she felt bad when she would hear this woman was going to be the same like event and stuff.

(35:29-35:54) Robbie Samuels
She's like, oh, I'm so glad they'll clear my conscious. So you're going to all help your launch team members from your past clear their conscious by like giving them another chance to do this. Just to add on that, I do think, I mean, I almost feel bad for your wife. Like she was worried about this and then the author was like, oh, whatever. But I do think like a lot of authors don't,

(35:55-36:13) Amy Climer
either they don't understand the value of the reviews or don't know what to do. And actually in our NSA community, there was somebody who wrote a Facebook post recently and said, hey, does anyone have advice on how to get more reviews? And she had two reviews for her book.

(36:13-36:33) Amy Climer
And I'm thinking, okay, listen, I know you have some close family members and friends that you should at least have 10 reviews if you had put an hour of effort into it. Anyway, I did recommend that she buy your book, Robbie, because I was like, here, follow Robbie's formula. But the other thing I wanted to add is that

(36:33-36:56) Amy Climer
I think, you know, we focus so much on the launch, right? And like, okay, the book is new, but if you're writing a book that's somewhat evergreen, which I think certainly everyone here is, you could do this launch, so to speak, at any point, you know, like you just make up a reason to do it. You know, I kind of did a little push at the one year mark and, um,

(36:56-37:21) Robbie Samuels
When you get an award, when the audio book comes out on your birthday, on your book's birthday, like on the international day of like, I mean, I know what day croissants day is national and national bagel day. And I know they're only a few weeks apart in January. And I've done specials between those weeks, like, you know, because my first book is croissants versus bagels. So, yeah, I think people think like it's a once like

(37:21-37:39) Robbie Samuels
done opportunity and then never to be seen again. And that's not the case at all. Like, even these mini efforts around, you know, flash styles are sort of the smaller scale version of a, maybe not a relaunch, but like a re-effort. And you can scale up. Tissa, what would you like to add?

(37:39-38:05) Tissa Richards
It's really interesting. I was in the midst of my book tour during the last flash sale, so I don't think I really put in the effort that I could have. But something I noticed made me think about this one in a different way. When I did share the link and said to clients, and I have a number of distribution lists through WhatsApp and things, and said, hey, here's your opportunity. If any of you are interested, here's 50 or 100 great books at 99 cents.

(38:05-38:30) Tissa Richards
a lot of people were they were really interested it was like oh wow what a gift and i thought so one of the things you know i'm a giver i'm a i'm a curator of networks and i i don't ask usually for a lot so that was one of the things that felt just i didn't love it i had to get over that during the launch was like you know please will you do a review please will you do a review and so this to me feels like an in there's a couple clients where i said hey you know what here's

(38:30-38:46) Tissa Richards
I'll send you this link and here's a five or $10 Amazon gift card. So you can also go get 10 books and it feels like a nice, it's a give, not an ask, as opposed to what so much of the launch felt like. And it,

(38:47-39:11) Tissa Richards
I just flipped how I thought about it. And I was really surprised at how many people were so excited to have a curated list of books that they could give as gifts and they could get. And so I think that was just a reframing. And so when you said there's another one coming, I'm in. I'm in with both books. But to me, this isn't actually an extension of the launch. It's more just a relational thing that I can share with my network and my clients.

(39:12-39:39) Robbie Samuels
Yeah, absolutely. It feels different to cross promote all these other people than to just market ourselves. And I'm for like the most part, very comfortable marketing myself because my background is fundraising and fundraising. You don't get, you know, like you're like goodwill is what's exchanged more than anything. And I had to learn is there's like a phrase like kick yourself out of the way and let the cause talk.

(39:39-40:06) Robbie Samuels
And in this way, like in the entrepreneur space, I'm like, oh, I have to kick myself and my discomfort out of the way and let the value of the thing I've done talk. And so if I've written something that's a book that I wrote as a resource, I mean, like, Dara, you're like, these people can follow these steps and get results. Well, then these people need to know the book exists and they have to believe it is valuable. And so all the effort to get people to read it and to write reviews is to have that bigger impact.

(40:06-40:32) Robbie Samuels
But our own like angst kind of can get in the way. And I'm like, well, then we're making it about ourselves. And that's that's not what this is supposed to be about. So it is a it is a real exercise. But I do think having all these other people and maybe, you know, you don't have to pick 50. Maybe, you know, someone could just organize this with like five other people and still get some impact. I love the idea that you're going to gift them not just a link, but like here's a few bucks to spend. Not that they don't have their own few bucks, but again, it's part of your goodwill.

(40:32-40:42) Tissa Richards
Exactly. It feels like goodwill, but also value creation, right? Yeah, that's awesome. I was surprised by that reaction. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is a really cool way to leverage this twice a year.

(40:43-41:04) Robbie Samuels
I had this idea, by the way, just, I don't know how much I'm talking about this 2018. So 2017, my first books come out. I like have a big launch. I aim for a hundred reviews. I get a hundred reviews and I immediately started thinking like, it'd be fun to do some sort of collaboration. And I have a Google form and I set it up and I asked people, would they pay zero 25 or $50 to be part of some sort of cross promotion?

(41:04-41:30) Robbie Samuels
And I don't know, I get like 25 people to respond. And I think only five people were willing to spend any money. And I think like one person said 50 and the rest said 25 and everyone else said free. And I just I like dropped the idea because I didn't have anything else related to that. But it showed me that there was clearly interest. And the very first one we did, we had a free option and a twenty five dollar option. And we had like 80 books.

(41:30-41:52) Robbie Samuels
And then I'm like, OK, so so we're here with something or something. But we've just I mean, your input, like every author in the in the collaborative campaign has offered a new insight. And that's what's made it better. And that's the surprising part for me. And all of this is like people collaborating together, creating materials for each other. Another shout out to David Newman, who like.

(41:52-42:18) Robbie Samuels
None of us were really playing with AI graphics back when he was doing it. And he came up with all these cool images and we were like, whoa, people were really surprised. So I love the creativity people bring to this. I'm looking forward to more of that. As we wrap up here, I have a question I'd love to ask, which is because I'm an author. So Daria, how would you answer that prompt? What has happened? What doors have opened? Because I'm an author.

(42:20-42:48) Daria Rudnik
Well, for me, for now, at this moment, like direct link is I have like I've been invited to podcast to talk about my book. And I had some conversations with people who read my book. I said, I'm definitely going to recommend your book to all of my clients. It's very powerful. That's very powerful. That means it's actually helping you open doors and leading to more of those conversations. That's great. Amy, how would you answer that question? Because I'm an author.

(42:49-43:09) Amy Climer
I think because I'm an author this year, I definitely have more work. Um, yeah, I've got, there's, there's definitely some new clients that are a direct response to the book. So last summer I had, uh, um, a public health department read, uh,

(43:09-43:31) Amy Climer
read the book. I had no idea this was happening. This woman got the book. She organized a book club with 25 leaders within the organization. And months later, they reached out to me and said, they've booked me for multiple things. I've trained like 85 of their top leaders. This is like 10 counties in a state. And then

(43:31-43:54) Amy Climer
did some webinars for all the, every single employee. So over a thousand people that have all been trained in this methodology that I teach on how to help your team be more creative and innovative. And now I'm lead to this afternoon. I'm going off to the same group to lead a retreat for their group of directors. And so all of this, none of this would have happened if it wasn't for the book. Um,

(43:54-44:09) Robbie Samuels
Powerful example. Yeah, yeah. And there's a few other clients, but that's been one that's just like all this repeat work because of the book. So I'm excited about that. Do you have something publicly available that helps people set up and run their own book club discussion with their teammates?

(44:09-44:25) Amy Climer
Yeah, I have a guide. Although I think that she did this before I even had that available. But yeah, I have like, I don't even know how maybe it's like two, three pages, four pages, and it just has like questions for each chapter and that people can use if they want.

(44:26-44:45) Robbie Samuels
That's the thing I suggest people more often when they're talking about selling into a company and like let them figure out how to use it a little bit themselves and then they'll see the value and then you'll have more buy in from the team and they'll want to get to know the author. And yeah. So what about you? How would you respond to the prompt? Because I'm an author. I think now I am.

(44:46-45:02) Tissa Richards
I've always loved stories from people and leaning in and hearing who people are and what they have to share. But now I'm sort of shamelessly categorizing them for my next book. There's multiple books. And so...

(45:02-45:20) Tissa Richards
And I've told people, oh, this is great. Thank you for sharing this. You are now on my list to interview for book X and you are now on my list to interview for book Y. And what's really cool about that is the doors that that has opened because people love to hear that you think their story is cool or their insights are cool and

(45:20-45:47) Tissa Richards
And they lean in. And that was not the purpose. This was not transactional. It was just, oh, my gosh, what you had to say was so interesting. I'm working on a book on that. That'll be the next one or the one after that. And it has just opened these really remarkable relationships and introductions and business opportunities. But mostly, I just love to hear the stories that people have. But my brain is always worrying, going, this would fit perfectly here. This would fit perfectly here. And it makes the whole, who am I going to interview?

(45:47-46:06) Robbie Samuels
I don't even have to think about it. It's all lined up already. That's so cool that, yeah, you paying attention and noticing other people makes them want to engage even more because that's the thing we all want to be is interesting. So the best thing we can do is show interest and you then holding on to that information in a way that you can go back to them

(46:06-46:34) Robbie Samuels
When the next book is coming out, it just crystallizes. And then you also know the book is something people are waiting for. Like you've got the right stories and the right valuable information. That's awesome. While I have you, Tissa, how can people find you and follow your work? What are the best ways for people to reach you? Was that a question for me? Yeah. Oh, yeah. My website, which is tissarichards.com or LinkedIn. And I'm frequently traveling to speak. So it's very easy to come to where you are.

(46:35-47:00) Robbie Samuels
Brilliant. I'm going to put all the links, by the way, in the show notes at bizbookpubhub.com. Amy, how about you? How can people find you and follow your work? I'm definitely on LinkedIn. And you can also go to my website, climberconsulting.com. And climber is spelled C-L-I-M-E-R. Fantastic. And Daria, how about you? It's my website, dariarudnik.com and my LinkedIn. I'm happy to connect.

(47:01-47:30) Robbie Samuels
Fantastic. All those links are going to be in the show notes at bizbookpubhub.com, which is where you'll find all the past episode show notes, plus the curated directory of experts we mentioned earlier today who can help you wherever you are in your journey, writing, editing, publishing, launching, marketing, your entrepreneurial focus book. We have a new blog. We have this podcast. We have Kindle Flash sales. Oh, and we have our free virtual networking events. So definitely check all that out. Talk to you soon, friends. Thanks for being here.