In today's blog post, I'm thrilled to share an enlightening conversation I had with Dr. David Leitner, a followership and strategy specialist. We delved into the often-overlooked concept of followership, discussing its crucial role in leadership dynamics, organizational success, and personal development. Dr. Leitner offered profound insights on how embracing followership can enhance teamwork, strategic execution, and overall impact within organizations
Daria Rudnik: Hi David, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to talk about leadership and, more importantly, followership with you. Would you mind briefly introducing yourself and telling us about what you do?
Dr. David Leitner: Sure! My name is Dr. David Leitner, and I'm a followership and strategy specialist. I engage with leadership to ensure they use strategy as the glue between their leadership and followership. Followership, as I define it, is the decision to actively participate in manifesting someone else's vision, purpose, and will—even supporting and bolstering it to make it more than it originally was. It's very much a choice, and leadership needs to open the door for people to make that choice. I focus on this by running workshops and doing strategic consulting, which is where this approach really comes to life.
Daria: That's fascinating. I noticed on your LinkedIn profile that you're a keynote speaker, consultant, and intriguingly, the "Chief Rhydler" at Rhydl. Can you tell us more about that title?
Dr. Leitner: Absolutely! I founded a company called Rhydl, which actually stands for the initials of my family—my children, my wife, and me. Since we're called Rhydl, I thought I could be the "Chief Rhydler." I see myself as someone who asks all the really hard questions, which is integral to being a mentor, a professor, and a consultant. It's not just about giving advice; it's about being someone who challenges people with questions. I find that this approach helps people learn and grow more deeply.
Daria: I love that! Asking questions can be incredibly powerful. Speaking of teaching, as a professor, how do you incorporate this questioning approach in your courses?
Dr. Leitner: My courses aren't about me standing up and lecturing. I always engage students with questions, asking them about their experiences with leadership, followership, and strategy. I don't want them to just get information from me; I'd rather they search for it themselves and teach me what they've learned. Then, I help refine that knowledge. For example, I might ask them to find examples of servant leadership and how it's applied in creating strategy. This encourages them to dive deep and think critically, which leads to much more engaged and meaningful learning.
Daria: That's an excellent approach. How do you see servant leadership and followership aligning? Do you need followership when you have servant leadership?
Dr. Leitner: I believe you always need to see both sides of the coin. Just because someone is a servant leader doesn't mean they don't have followers. Servant leadership is one example of a style someone might choose, and leaders might jump from being servant leaders to being authoritative or democratic, depending on what's needed. The idea that you have to choose one leadership style is, in my opinion, a big fallacy. You need to learn as many leadership styles as possible and then, based on your perception of your followers, figure out what's right for the person or group at that moment. When it comes to servant leadership, leaders often take a step back and support emerging leaders within their team, acting almost in a role of followership themselves. It's about understanding when to lead and when to follow, which can be incredibly powerful.
Daria: That's a great point. So, in that context, who is the leader and who is the follower? What's the difference between the two?
Dr. Leitner: Leadership, to me, is about guiding strategic processes and helping others maximize their efforts toward a vision they've set. A follower, on the other hand, is someone who actively chooses to participate in that process, bringing their energy and resources to maximize the expected outcomes. If you think of leadership as guiding a process and followership as manifesting and effectively working towards that process, that's how I see the two roles. Leaders need followers to truly be leaders because leadership implies having people who are following you somewhere.
Daria: That's very insightful. So, it's the followers who create leaders, not leaders who create other leaders?
Dr. Leitner: Exactly. One of the jobs of great leaders is to grow other people into leadership, but it's also to support followership. The greatest leaders recognize when someone is primed for leadership growth and when someone is primed for being an exemplary follower. They support people in both positions. For example, in a company, it might take someone two years to move from an entry-level role to the next phase of their career. A good leader helps them understand the importance of their current role and how acting in followership is essential for their growth into the leader they want to be.
Daria: How do you grow followership within an organization? What steps can leaders take?
Dr. Leitner: Growing followership is about creating three things. First, a mutual vision—everyone needs to understand where they're going and why. Second, a culture of both performance excellence and trust, allowing for ownership in that field. This creates a realm where followership can thrive. The last part is opening the door for people to present themselves as effective followers. That means asking them, "How can I help you get your job done better?" It's about supporting them in maximizing their skills and helping them work better with their teammates. From a follower's perspective, it's about acting as a strategic partner, not just managing up. It's about asking your leader, "How can I help to better manifest your vision? What can I do to make what you want to see in the world happen more easily?"
Dr. David Leitner: Sure! My name is Dr. David Leitner, and I'm a followership and strategy specialist. I engage with leadership to ensure they use strategy as the glue between their leadership and followership. Followership, as I define it, is the decision to actively participate in manifesting someone else's vision, purpose, and will—even supporting and bolstering it to make it more than it originally was. It's very much a choice, and leadership needs to open the door for people to make that choice. I focus on this by running workshops and doing strategic consulting, which is where this approach really comes to life.
Daria: That's fascinating. I noticed on your LinkedIn profile that you're a keynote speaker, consultant, and intriguingly, the "Chief Rhydler" at Rhydl. Can you tell us more about that title?
Dr. Leitner: Absolutely! I founded a company called Rhydl, which actually stands for the initials of my family—my children, my wife, and me. Since we're called Rhydl, I thought I could be the "Chief Rhydler." I see myself as someone who asks all the really hard questions, which is integral to being a mentor, a professor, and a consultant. It's not just about giving advice; it's about being someone who challenges people with questions. I find that this approach helps people learn and grow more deeply.
Daria: I love that! Asking questions can be incredibly powerful. Speaking of teaching, as a professor, how do you incorporate this questioning approach in your courses?
Dr. Leitner: My courses aren't about me standing up and lecturing. I always engage students with questions, asking them about their experiences with leadership, followership, and strategy. I don't want them to just get information from me; I'd rather they search for it themselves and teach me what they've learned. Then, I help refine that knowledge. For example, I might ask them to find examples of servant leadership and how it's applied in creating strategy. This encourages them to dive deep and think critically, which leads to much more engaged and meaningful learning.
Daria: That's an excellent approach. How do you see servant leadership and followership aligning? Do you need followership when you have servant leadership?
Dr. Leitner: I believe you always need to see both sides of the coin. Just because someone is a servant leader doesn't mean they don't have followers. Servant leadership is one example of a style someone might choose, and leaders might jump from being servant leaders to being authoritative or democratic, depending on what's needed. The idea that you have to choose one leadership style is, in my opinion, a big fallacy. You need to learn as many leadership styles as possible and then, based on your perception of your followers, figure out what's right for the person or group at that moment. When it comes to servant leadership, leaders often take a step back and support emerging leaders within their team, acting almost in a role of followership themselves. It's about understanding when to lead and when to follow, which can be incredibly powerful.
Daria: That's a great point. So, in that context, who is the leader and who is the follower? What's the difference between the two?
Dr. Leitner: Leadership, to me, is about guiding strategic processes and helping others maximize their efforts toward a vision they've set. A follower, on the other hand, is someone who actively chooses to participate in that process, bringing their energy and resources to maximize the expected outcomes. If you think of leadership as guiding a process and followership as manifesting and effectively working towards that process, that's how I see the two roles. Leaders need followers to truly be leaders because leadership implies having people who are following you somewhere.
Daria: That's very insightful. So, it's the followers who create leaders, not leaders who create other leaders?
Dr. Leitner: Exactly. One of the jobs of great leaders is to grow other people into leadership, but it's also to support followership. The greatest leaders recognize when someone is primed for leadership growth and when someone is primed for being an exemplary follower. They support people in both positions. For example, in a company, it might take someone two years to move from an entry-level role to the next phase of their career. A good leader helps them understand the importance of their current role and how acting in followership is essential for their growth into the leader they want to be.
Daria: How do you grow followership within an organization? What steps can leaders take?
Dr. Leitner: Growing followership is about creating three things. First, a mutual vision—everyone needs to understand where they're going and why. Second, a culture of both performance excellence and trust, allowing for ownership in that field. This creates a realm where followership can thrive. The last part is opening the door for people to present themselves as effective followers. That means asking them, "How can I help you get your job done better?" It's about supporting them in maximizing their skills and helping them work better with their teammates. From a follower's perspective, it's about acting as a strategic partner, not just managing up. It's about asking your leader, "How can I help to better manifest your vision? What can I do to make what you want to see in the world happen more easily?"
Daria: That's an interesting distinction between managing up and followership. Why would people want to be followers when there's such a strong focus on leadership?
Dr. Leitner: There are two main reasons. First, research shows that a significant portion of the workforce, especially younger generations, aren't interested in leadership positions. They want to excel in the skills they love without the added responsibilities of leadership, which often take them away from those tasks. Second, recognizing that in most organizations, people spend the majority of their time in follower roles. Choosing to act in followership means you're maximizing your potential within the organization. It's about bringing your best self forward toward shared goals and choosing where your energy goes.
Daria: That's a compelling argument for embracing followership. In your personal journey, you've served in the IDF and are a disabled veteran. How has your military experience shaped your views on leadership, followership, and teamwork?
Dr. Leitner: In the military, especially in a special operations unit, it's all about everyone pitching in. It's not about whether you're the officer or the squad commander; what matters is who steps up when things aren't going well. It's about who is willing to help the whole team move forward. Being a disabled veteran has also taught me that personal energy is a finite resource. I'm very selective about how I use my energy and who I use it for. I think that's a lesson everyone can learn: be more aware of how you choose to use your energy and how others use it. When you act in followership, you're letting someone else use your energy for something, so it's important to make that choice consciously.
Daria: That's a powerful perspective. Before we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to share with our audience?
Dr. Leitner: Yes, I'd like to emphasize that it's okay to choose to be a follower. We get to choose our followership—who and what we follow, and why. That choice means you believe in something bigger than yourself, and when you do that, it makes your energy and time worthwhile. Don't let that choice be made for you; choose wisely.
Daria: Thank you so much for sharing your insights, David. This has been an incredible conversation, and I believe our audience will find great value in understanding the importance of followership.
Dr. Leitner: Thank you, Daria. It was a pleasure being here.
Dr.David Leitner
Dr. D. has spent over 15 years educating and advising about how to utilize strategy as the link between leadership and followership for success. He is a consultant and mentor, helping people and organizations improve their leadership, followership, and strategic engagement. He is a disabled IDF veteran, father to 3 amazing goofballs, and the only practical shooting wheelchair competitor in Israel. David also volunteers and lectures in the IDF and with is an active volunteer with the Restart Organization
Dr. D. has spent over 15 years educating and advising about how to utilize strategy as the link between leadership and followership for success. He is a consultant and mentor, helping people and organizations improve their leadership, followership, and strategic engagement. He is a disabled IDF veteran, father to 3 amazing goofballs, and the only practical shooting wheelchair competitor in Israel. David also volunteers and lectures in the IDF and with is an active volunteer with the Restart Organization
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