Scaling with Care: Culture, Curiosity & AI-Ready HR with Traci Austin
In this episode of the Build by People Leaders podcast, host Daria Rudnik speaks with Traci Austin, transformational leadership strategist and founder of Elevated Talent Consulting, about what it really takes to scale organizations without losing care for people.
Drawing from her unconventional career path — from building HR departments from scratch to leading nursing homes and advising trade businesses — Traci shares practical, field-tested strategies for building culture that actually lives beyond the walls.
Takeaways
Scaling breaks when succession is accidental. If leaders can’t move up without preparing someone to replace them, growth will eventually stall — or burn people out.
Core values don’t belong in posters — they belong in interview questions. The way you design hiring conversations determines whether culture survives scale.
AI won’t replace HR — but incurious HR will replace itself. Strategic advantage comes from using AI to challenge your thinking, not confirm it.
Facts dissolve emotional noise. When HR anchors difficult conversations in data (impact on revenue, customers, retention), they earn a seat at the executive table.
Curiosity is a strategic skill. The ability to ask better questions — of leaders, of data, of AI — is what transforms HR from tactical support into business partnership.
Daria Rudnik (00:02.087) Welcome to Build by People Leaders podcast, brought to you by Aydra AI, your AI-powered coach for leaders in tech. I'm your host, Daria Rudnik, and this show is for HR and L &D leaders in fast-growing companies and scale-ups, those building real impact from within and shaping AI-ready organizations. And if you go to dariarudnik.com, you can find AI-Ready Teams framework, a practical blueprint to build mature teams in the era of AI.
And today we have a very special guest and I'm so excited about having this conversation. Today it's Tracy Austin, a transformational leadership strategist and founder and chief talent officer of Elevated Talent Consultant. She's the authority on HR and leadership for the trades, helping construction and skilled trades businesses build high-performing teams, develop the next generation of trade leaders and attract and keep the best employees. Welcome Tracy. I'm so excited to have you here today.
Traci Austin (01:00.802) Thanks so much for having me.
Daria Rudnik (01:03.453) Please share your career path and journey what brought you to HR and helping leaders.
Traci Austin (01:08.942) Yeah, absolutely. So I started, you know, my career really in HR. So didn't go to school for HR, but shifted into HR. And you know, what I found is I started HR departments from the ground up in nonprofit organizations for about 10 years. And what's so impactful about that is I had the privilege of seeing the impact of the work that we did. You know, so you saw the impact on participants, you saw
the interactions with people every day, the impact on staff, the value of their work with the folks that they were serving. So that was incredible. From there, I went into actually nursing homes and became a nursing home administrator and then went into consulting. So I know, I know. Don't you love these right turns that happen in career paths where we're like, how did that actually happen? I was doing a regional director position.
Daria Rudnik (01:57.341) Yeah.
Traci Austin (02:04.972) of staffing for a nursing home organization. They had about 65 homes. you know, I was like, this really isn't quite the right fit for me. They're like, well, do you want to become a nursing home administrator? I'm like, sure. Yeah, no.
Daria Rudnik (02:19.433) Yeah, that's incredible. We've seen people here coming from teaching to HR, from HR to chief operation officers. And now it's amazing how careers can evolve.
Traci Austin (02:36.162) Yeah, absolutely. And the key with that is opportunity, right? Is it's like, hey, what is the opportunity you want for your career because you get to drive it. But guess what, others are going to try to drive your career as well. And it's that push pull in there that there's huge opportunities, but you have to know what you want and what's important. Otherwise, that career will not be fulfilling. And quite honestly, you're not going to be great at it.
Daria Rudnik (02:59.165) Yeah, that's true. Well, you know what, I'm really curious, like before we had this conversation, you mentioned something that I want to ask you back. How do you scale without losing this care for your people? Because we all know that in fast growing companies, speed is so much, I mean, it's so high and there's so much to do and everyone is so busy and you hire new people and you don't like absorb them while you're hiring those people.
because you still need to produce lot of results. How do you scale and still care for people?
Traci Austin (03:34.71) Yeah, absolutely. So I'm going to go to culture first. So we define culture as the behaviors that you allow or don't allow inside of your organization, right? So that's a key piece. How are we treating people? How are we pulling things in? And what we all know is that when we are at our highest stress points, we behave at our worst, right? And so what happens in organizations as we're scaling, there's a lot of stress, it's very fast, especially when we have PE backing, right? We are in a race for a finish line to sell
this organization at a higher valuation. We need to get really good at holding two things at the same time. Culture is a piece of that is what is the culture we want to take through and own and hold each other accountable for, have some grace within it. But then that other piece of caring for people is,
One of the rules that we really talk about quite a bit is we can't promote you to another position unless you have somebody that's behind you that's ready to step into the role that you have. And so when you start to create this expectation that folks are, you hey, you've got these high aspirations of growing yourself.
yet you're not gonna be able to do that unless you have your replacement ready. What it does is it shifts the mindset to truly care for the folks that you're grooming into your role. And it shifts the dynamics into, yes, there's something in this for me and for the organization, but if I'm growing the folks under me, I know that as I grow, I have faith in what's happening in the role that I was just in. So it's really important.
the thoughts that we have around people and how we're setting our organization up to be successful.
Daria Rudnik (05:23.817) I mean, I totally agree on the culture piece. If you don't build culture, some kind of culture will emerge. But the question is whether it's the culture that will help your organization grow and succeed or is it the culture that will destroy your organization? Because I've seen both. I've seen cases when like unaligned culture actually ruined organization. But I have a question for you regarding that. since you said culture comes first,
Traci Austin (05:41.569) Yes, for sure.
Daria Rudnik (05:52.649) Who owns culture?
Traci Austin (05:54.989) Yeah, and the when you look at culture, your leaders own it because it is the it is the environment that you allow or don't allow. It's the behaviors that you allow or don't allow to happen. But here's the thing with culture, culture, there's going to be different cultures and different teams, there's going to be different cultures at different sites, right. And so the key is we have clarity over
what is it that's most important within the culture, right? And yes, we can have core values and whatnot, but if they're only on the wall and not lived through the organization, they don't mean anything. And that's where the behaviors become really important. So can we build our core values into our hiring processes, into our performance evaluations, into our one-on-ones? Absolutely. But what we have to do is we have to ensure
that we have tangible examples of behaviors of what those core values mean.
Daria Rudnik (06:56.681) Do you have any kind of practical example? Okay, well, I have a list of values, integrity, clarity, something else. How do I incorporate it in my hiring process? And how, and most importantly, how can I make sure that my hiring manager, one I'm hiring for is actually using that in the hiring process?
Traci Austin (07:01.549) Mm-hmm.
Traci Austin (07:08.928) Yeah.
Traci Austin (07:18.464) Yeah, yeah. So we've done a couple things with us. So one of them is we create a hiring scorecard that we are training all of our managers on. So, you know, the hiring scorecard is going to be the same. So it's based on head, which is what are the cognitive and behavioral pieces that we need. We also use predictive index. So like the I behavioral and cognitive becomes a key piece of that. But those are things like critical thinking.
Daria Rudnik (07:40.669) Mm-hmm.
Traci Austin (07:46.563) Those are things like problem solving, right? And so what we're doing is we're asking key interview questions about that. So, you know, that interview question might have something to do with, you know, you are in a plant manager role and you're responsible, you know, not only for, you know, the manufacturing of the product, but also the shipping and ensuring that our backlog is taken care of, ensuring that we're meeting the client specifications and needs, right?
So, how do you handle when we have, let's say, $20 million worth of product that's ready, but we're not shipping anything? How do you go through and handle that? what's important is we're asking some of those questions, and then we actually create as leadership what we're listening for in that. So I'm listening for curiosity, I'm listening for, are they gonna go dig into the ERP system? I'm listening for...
process items, I'm listening for, you know, what are those things that are not happening within it? You know, I'm listening for that complete list. And when I can create that and actually list that out for our hiring managers, what we're doing is we're designing the expectations and the culture into the training process and into the tool for them to use. And then we'll list out acceptable, like here's what a one is, or a two, a three, a four, or five.
Daria Rudnik (09:09.833) Mm-hmm.
Traci Austin (09:15.374) you know, kind of based on that. So that's one way of doing it. Another thing that we build in is going back to culture, right? So, you know, if appreciation is something that is key to our organization, and I'm just going to choose a sales position right now, right? And we're hiring for a sales role, what I may say as an interview question is, you know, hey, Daria, what was the...
last sale that you had that you're most or what's a sale that you had that you're most proud of, right? And you tell me all about the sale you had that you were most proud of. And I say, awesome. So how did you get that sale? You know, when you start telling me how you got it and whatnot, more times than not, it came through some sort of referral, somebody you knew, blah, blah, blah. And then I say, hey, tell me, so how did you go back and thank or appreciate that person that gave you that referral? Well, I didn't.
Okay, right there tells me they're not aligned with our core value of appreciation. So right there, you know, I know that they're not aligning with appreciation and you can do this with any different one. It could be teamwork. So an example for teamwork, maybe, you know, tell me about, you know, one of your best results at your previous position. Who was involved in that? Amazing. So Daria was involved with that. What was Daria's role? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
What was your role in that? How did you support her? How did she support you? So when I ask questions about it, I'm seeing if there was truly collaboration. I'm also seeing if an individual is kind of stealing for themselves what someone else's success was, because I want to hear where their weaknesses are. None of us are perfect. And guess what? We can't be great at everything, which is why we create teams. So I'm really looking for them to own what their strength is and own how they kind of
backfill their teams so that we're playing to each other's strengths through the interview questions.
Daria Rudnik (11:18.902) I love that. Those two examples are amazing. And I love this hiring scorecard, which is basically how we, in most cases, how people hire. Let's have a talk. Let's have a conversation. I like this person. Well, this person seems like aligned with our values. How do you know that? Because they are like me. They say they agree with what I say. They tell me what I want to hear and kind of having this group bias and hiring people. But when you actually have a scorecard where you
all of you, all of the interviewers who talk to this person, give their scores and can tell why those scores are there, what they saw and then discuss, that creates a lot more clarity in the hiring process. And I love the examples about cases and kind of asking people how they behaved, what they did, not just, yes, I'm, appreciation is my value. I do appreciate other people and I will appreciate that in my work.
Traci Austin (12:16.814) Yeah. And you notice I never even asked them directly about it. You know, and the intention is that they've already looked at our website and they know what our core values are.
So I don't ask directly about the core values, but I ask about them in the behaviors to see if they do meet them or not. And that tells me immediately if they're aligned and if they're not, then guess what? There's probably a one on that based on what that was. And then what we do is that same hiring scorecard, we right size it for a performance management. it, you know, so those same things we're looking for in hiring are exactly what we're looking for in their performance.
Daria Rudnik (12:59.434) And it might seem like it takes time to create those scorecards, to think about those examples. And it does. Yeah. But eventually it actually saves you more time because you hire the right people and then you use kind of the same tools for, like I said, performance management. And you don't have to rehire and fire people just because they're not aligned with our value. Like they said, they are during the interview process and you kind of felt that you like this person. It saves a lot of time and friction in the organization. That's true.
Traci Austin (13:05.398) And it does.
Traci Austin (13:25.334) Yeah, for sure.
Yes. Yes.
Daria Rudnik (13:31.967) Well, I need to ask you a question about the very hot topic that everyone is talking about. And we definitely need to talk about it as well. That is AI with AI entering the workplace. And what I'm curious is not a lot of HR involved in this AI transformation on the strategic level. Of course, they do implement a lot of hiring tools like AI scoring bots, but not at the strategic level kind of defining
the where companies going with AI and my question to you is why do you think it is and how HR can actually get there?
Traci Austin (14:09.952) Yeah, I think some of it is that there's still a fear around it. mean, AI is still relatively new. I think that there's a fear around it, but also there is a lack of education around it. And yes, there's a ton of education out there about AI, but it hasn't been sussed through yet to eliminate the noise for what we need, is what I have found, right? Like, yes, there's a ton of education, but
Have we sussed through the noise yet to get specific results? So I do think that that's a key part of it. I think it's coming, and it's coming very quickly. The other thing for strategically with AI is if it's not adopted by the organization, it's difficult for HR to adopt it, right? Because typically, HR kind of flows into it. And you know,
how are we using AI as a full organization and the integration between the different departments? I don't think that that infrastructure has been built out well yet. But one of the things that I do see so often is one of the disconnects between HR and the executive leadership team is HR is typically still speaking very tactically.
You know, you know, when I see disconnects between HR and the ELT, it's because they're not speaking the same language, right? Executive leaders are typically looking at what is the result? What's the long term? What's the sale? What are those key things? So it's speaking in monetary terms, whereas HR is speaking in people terms and not turning it into what those monetary pieces are. I think AI can play a huge role in with the right prompts, helping HR to say, hey,
Here's these trends that we see are, here's my last five years of my climate surveys and my exit interview notes, and here's the amount of spend that we've had in these key areas. Here's the strategic plan for the next three to five years. Can you help me suss this out to determine what are the trends from the past and what has to change for us to hit these results in the future? So I do think that, you know,
Traci Austin (16:21.07) playing with it for our HR leaders listening, first, make sure you're playing with it in an environment that it doesn't make your information public. And that's so incredibly important. So whether that is doing it inside of Microsoft with Copilot or whatever that is, make sure it's not on a free version where it's becoming public information. And make sure you're following what your internal AI policies are. That stuff is just really important. But start playing with it and start asking it questions. And I think with AI,
Daria Rudnik (16:28.981) Yeah.
Traci Austin (16:50.582) we have to get over the fear of it. And for me to get over the fear of it, I started playing with it with travel. And so I started playing with it with my travel planning just to be like, okay, what does this look like if I say I want to do this or that? And it got me into a rhythm to say, I can actually use it over here in this domain, or I can use it over here in this domain. So I think, you know, sometimes it's like, hey, we want to jump all the way in with something that's really, really important. I think we need to take baby steps and play with things first.
Daria Rudnik (17:18.747) I love this playing. It's so much fun to play with AI, kind of learn with AI. And I love that you mentioned that HR people, mean, anyone can learn with AI. Just ask questions, give some context and see what comes out of it, but never take it for granted. Always double check, triple check and think it through. I actually have a story where HR played a...
Traci Austin (17:36.364) Right, when... for sure.
Daria Rudnik (17:44.859) critical role in AI transformation. They basically led because it's a change management project and HR is good in change management because we know how to train people. understand the fears and concerns behind those and we know how to plan. AI is a lot about change management. It's a lot about fears and when HR plays a critical role, AI transformation goes smoothly. But you mentioned something really interesting that
HR speaks tactically and about people. And again, when you speak tactically, you cannot lead AI transformation. You cannot be invited to the table. So if you still don't have access to AI that you can learn from, how can you learn to speak business?
Traci Austin (18:33.356) First off, you have to want to.
You have to be curious about it, right? You know, and there's some of us that are really great strategists and there's others of us that are, you know, really good executors. And I will name it is not everyone's place to speak business, right? Like it's not because it's not what they're passionate about, or it's not something that they necessarily want you now. Can we learn it to a certain degree for sure, but you have to want to. but I think one of those key things is, you know, go ahead and play with that in AI.
Now I do want to give a caveat and Dario you probably have thoughts on this as well. However, AI is built to tell you what you want to hear. So be very, very, very, very, very careful with that because it will lie to you just like Google will lie to you, right? So we do need to ensure that
we're asking, you know, some we're asking the questions and we're using the knowledge that we have to challenge AI. Because, you know, we don't always we don't want to hear always what we want to hear we want to hear what am I missing? What are the unintended consequences of this? You know, what is the downfall of this if we do this? So make sure you're putting those prompts in.
And those specific prompts will help you to learn business and even putting a prompt in that says, Hey, I'm tactical HR, I'm an HR business partner. I really want to create some strategic change in the organization in this area. How could I potentially be heard by my executive leadership team when this is their strategic goals for 2026?
Traci Austin (20:15.796) What that's going to do is AI is going to be able to suss through that and give you some good items. Don't take it at face value. Use your head, use your knowledge, use some of those conversations with your peers as appropriate and ensuring we're not, you know, breaching confidentiality, but make, you know, have those conversations because those conversations will open you up to more questions and to more opportunities to dig in deeper, whether it's into the financials or
the overall impact or any of those trajectories that are happening.
Daria Rudnik (20:50.667) And I love the trace. mean, you basically, told us how to work with AI. You, you think about it first, you, you learn what you want to know. You gather some context by talking to people, by talking to your managers. Then you go to AI, you ask this question and you ask AI to challenge your thinking. You don't want to kind of them telling, yes, you're absolutely right. Good point.
You want them to challenge you, want AI to show you blind spots. And then you again, you think about it, you critically evaluate it, you talk to other people, make sure everything you have from AI is correct. And only then you can use it. Great. Well, thank you so much, Tracy. It's an amazing conversation. I love it. I know you have one story to tell us. It's about how to have difficult conversations with leaders coming to you. Don't be all the problems on your head.
So how to deal with that with confidence and stay with us. We'll get to that later. What's one, yeah, I have this another question. What's one most important message you'd like to share with HR if you want to be strategic business partners?
Traci Austin (22:02.093) Be curious. I think for those is that curiosity is so incredibly important. In an era of AI where we potentially have the ability to lose connection with people is be curious with folks. I think learning a coaching skill set is so incredibly important because AI cannot replace people.
Yes, AI can do coaching, but yet AI can't, it can't feel, it can't sense what that is. It doesn't have the intuition that you have. So when you can get curious about what's going on and really start to dig into that, guess what? As HR, you don't need to have all the answers, nor should you, but you do need to know what you're driving towards and what those key outcomes are that you can enroll folks in.
Daria Rudnik (23:00.075) Well, OK, that is a very interesting conversation about HR and how to help speak business language and how to learn with the help of AI. Now we want to learn something about you. And I have some rapid five questions to ask you. Are you ready for that? OK, let's go. Are you a tea person or coffee person?
Traci Austin (23:20.463) coffee.
Daria Rudnik (23:22.482) Dogs or cats?
Traci Austin (23:24.214) Newfoundlands.
Daria Rudnik (23:25.611) they say fuck, love them. Message or phone call? Would you rather take a message? Phone call? Okay, that's right. What did you want to be when you were a kid?
Traci Austin (23:27.939) Good. Yeah.
Traci Austin (23:32.419) phone call.
Traci Austin (23:40.963) physical therapist, actually, that didn't work out.
Daria Rudnik (23:42.827) Where do you go when you need perspective?
Traci Austin (23:48.857) for a walk with a new.
Daria Rudnik (23:52.627) What's one rule you've broken but don't regret?
Traci Austin (23:56.771) getting a divorce.
Daria Rudnik (24:00.64) What's one habit or phrase people say it's totally you?
Traci Austin (24:06.413) It's more curious questions, so I wonder what's on their plate that I don't yet know.
Daria Rudnik (24:12.107) Very interesting. Yes, like you mentioned, curiosity, be curious and ask questions. That's true. That's so important. Okay. Well, thank you so much. We still have a story to share, but before that, how people can find you,
Traci Austin (24:17.645) Yeah.
Traci Austin (24:27.149) Yeah, so we are on LinkedIn at Tracy Austin or Elevated Talent Consulting. You can also find us on our website at elevatedtalentconsulting.com. We also have our podcast that has about 214 episodes on it, which is the People Strategy Podcast and then lots of amazing guest podcasts like yours.
Daria Rudnik (24:47.625) Great. So all of the links are in the notes to this episode. Please make sure to reach out to Tracy, connect with her on LinkedIn, check out her website. And now please tell us, tell us about the secret blueprint that HR can use to deal with all the problems coming to them.
Traci Austin (25:03.905) Okay, so my guess is all of you listening have had this situation where, know, somebody comes in your office and like, can I have a minute? You're like, yeah, sure. You know, and that minute turns into like an hour, right? And then after that happens several times, you're not getting your work done. And it's like, okay.
And even worse is when they come in to say, you have a minute? They have a problem. And that problem typically starts with a complaint and they kind of dump it on your desk and do this and walk away. And then a week later, it's like, well, Tracy, why don't you get that done? It's like, that wasn't my problem to solve, but I took it on as my problem when I accepted the conversation. Right. And so what I have found over time is the problems folks present with or the complaints.
typically aren't really what the problem is. And so we've developed this tough talk blueprint that really starts with understanding what the problem is. And so what I will say is probably a lot of you HR folks or leaders listening are going, Tracy, it's not a complaint, it's an opportunity. Yes, you're absolutely right. And if I walk out on the shop floor and I'm trying to figure out what's going wrong, because I'm seeing results not happening,
I don't ask them what their opportunities are. I ask them what's frustrating them. I ask them what their complaints are and they're happy to tell me. Right? So yes, we definitely want to shift complaint to opportunity yet if we're going to get the information, a lot of times we need to approach it in the language that our folks are using. So I'll just give you an example of one that I hear from managers a lot recently, which is no one wants to work for us or no one wants to stay. Right?
And so the first question I ask is, all right, what are the facts around that? When you say no one wants to work for us, tell me the facts. And they're like, huh? I'm like, no, no, no, seriously, tell me the facts. Well, I don't know. I said, hold on. I go and I pull up and I said, all right, so we've actually had 89 % turnover in the first 90 days over the last two years in your department.
Traci Austin (27:10.019) And they're like, really? I'm like, yeah. He goes, yeah, nobody wants to work for us anymore. And I go, well, hold on. We hired them. So is it that they didn't want to work for us? Or is it something that we're potentially doing in the first 90 days? You notice I'm approaching this with curiosity. There's no blame or shame here. I didn't say you screwed up when you hired them and you do an awful job at onboarding. I didn't say that. What I said was the data's telling me.
X, Y, and Z, I'm curious, what do you think from where you sit? Now all of a sudden, we've opened up a completely different conversation, right? Then I lead into, so what's the impact on you when we have 89 % turnover in your department? And his response is, I'm back on the machine 90 % of the time and I can't do my job. And I've got so and so mad at me because I'm not doing X, Y, and Z and my job's in danger because I'm not doing the management job. Sid, you're absolutely right.
So what do we want to do about it? Well, I don't know. I said, OK, well, then let's dig a little bit deeper. What's the impact on the organization with you being back on the machine 90 % of the time?
Um, we're missing deadlines. There's customer complaints. We're not able to get the key things done. Okay. Amazing. What's the impact on the other employees on your team? Cause if we have 89 % turnover in the first 90 days, what is the turnover over the year or whatnot? Right? So we pulled that up. We kind of walked through that and he's like, they're burned out and they're frustrated. go, yeah, I said, so are we losing our
best folks, are we losing our worst folks? So we use regrettable turnover and non regrettable turnover. So we pulled those numbers up and kind of walked through that. And then I said, what's the impact on our customers? He's like unmet expectations. said, Yep, absolutely. I said, so we've got a number of problems here that, you know, what do we want to kind of address first? I said, let's kind of list them out. He's like, so you know, the turnover in the first
Traci Austin (29:14.063) 90 days, I said, Yep, what do you think is attributing to that? He's like, I don't have folks to train them so they get frustrated and they leave. Amazing. Noted. What else? He said, you know, there's not a good, you know, not a good onboarding process where they know actually what they need to do. So it's not just, you know, they're leaving, but it's also we
we don't have a process to ensure that they have the skill set to actually be successful. said, okay, great. So we walked through that. So I said, we need a stronger onboarding process, potentially a buddy program with some of the folks that are already here that we can shift that. said, what about, who are we hiring? Of course I knew that answer, but I said, who are we hiring? He's like, anyone that walks in. said, okay, so we've got warm body hiring. Do we wanna continue that? He's like, no. I said, okay.
So I said, so right here, we've just in the turnover in the first 90 days. I said, is it true that no one wants to work for us? He goes, no, I guess not. I said, I think you're right. So we're not hiring the right people. So we can solve that with doing some interview training and we can solve that with a scorecard, which we talked about earlier in our conversation. I said, we can address the, you know, what's the training element in the first 90 days of our onboarding program.
Can we create somehow a new hire buddy program? He's like, yep. He goes, how do I get off the machine 90 % of the time? I said, okay, so now we need to prioritize what's there. And I said, so what requests do we actually need to make from leadership or what requests do you need to make in order to start to solve these? Because until those are solved, you're going to still continue to be on that machine. So now we've got very tangible
requests that's based in facts and not feelings and anger and frustration that we can now take to leadership and tie that into results. So if we've got, you know, a goal of doubling our revenue this year, and we've got 89 % turnover in the first 90 days, those two things cannot happen simultaneously. So now we need to start making the
Traci Austin (31:34.447) in getting the resources and ensuring that we're staying focused on what's important and we're not taking on too many things at one time.
Daria Rudnik (31:44.072) I loved it. It's an amazing framework. You stick to the facts, you start with the facts. What are the facts? What data says us? And then you uncover the problem. What is the core? What is the impact on you, on the organization, on the customers, on the employees? What is the root cause of this problem? Or maybe several of them. And what do you want to address first? What comes first? What is the actions step you can take to actually
change the situation. So I love this framework. Thanks for sharing it with us. Thank you for having this conversation Tracy. It was it was incredible. I learned so much from you and I hope our audience as well. And if you're listening, if you like this episode, please leave a positive review on apple podcast or spotify, subscribe to our youtube channel and stay tuned for the next episodes. Bye!